The fragmentation failure, the widest possible net, ISness

[Peter]

Dear All,

After reading a bit about WSM from your excellent website, i feel that the underlying problem in all this philosophy and scientific activity, is a failure in some humans to grasp and accept the unified IS-ness of Existence.

I use the word Existence to represent the Totality of All Phenomena, ie: the Phenomenon of Existence. It's the widest net that we can throw because it takes into account the Totality - the All.

By definition, the All is certainly One Thing - One, unified phenomenon that everything is a part of, and this phenomenon is in a state of BEING, Is-ness.

So what? I hear you say.

Well, we have the tendency to fragment the Totality and start saying that Existence is "either/or" whereas in the Totality, Existence is everything (both and all).

So, all phenomena exist in all their possible states and are perceived by a variety of sentient creatures (like us) in many different ways.

We have to take into account the perceptual paradigms that are created by the perceiving entity, as part of the perceived phenomena.

The search for The Unified Theory of Everything is simply accepting that Existence is the perfect model - AS IT IS.

This does not require much effort, it only requires the ability to perceive the Totality as the unity that it is.

This should give you a sense of supreme satisfaction, taking a large breath in and saying "ahhhh" on the outbreath.

Then perceiving that which we can perceive, and enjoying the experience, realizing that perhaps we can never fully know this Existence, perhaps Existence is mystery even unto itself.

Perhaps, outside of sentient perception, Existence is completey unaware of itself, the blindwatchmaker of Nirvana (nir=without, vana=perception of the many phenomena). Then every now and again, sentient life happens due to the dynamics of biochemical reactions, and then we get these sentient creatures musing and wondering their beautiful thoughts.

How space/time/matter etc... appears to us, will always be restricted by our perceptual and cognitive abilities, which are in themselves, part of Existence which we can call "The Human Perception of Existence."

We can by-pass frustration or angst by grasping the totality as a state of IS-ness and realizing our deepest identity as being Existence.

What can be known, will be known (by us or other minds), what cannot be known will always be mystery.

The ultimate mystery must surely be that "Existence is."

Strange old thing, huh?

[haselhurst]

Hi Peter,
I agree with a lot of what you have written.
"Existence is everything (both and all)."

The question is "Can we correctly imagine what exists."
Current (postmodern) opinion is no, which you seem to support.

Yet if we do not know what exists, then we do not know
i) what the mind is
ii) what reality is (what really exists)
iii) Thus the connection between mind and reality.

Thus we have no foundation to claim that we can either imagine or not imagine physical reality. We do not have any foundations to deduce such things. So the correct 'postmodern' position must surely be a skeptical open mind on this question of imagining reality that does actually correspond to what exists.

So a question? Do you have any proof that we cannot imagine reality? i.e. Your source of truth?

If we have an open (curious) skeptical mind then we would explore this question further.
And there are valid reasons for suggesting that we can correctly imagine reality. i.e. We do experience a world around us, through our minds, where there seems to be some logical relationship between our minds (logic and senses) and the external world that we imagine to exist (Kant's thing in itself). E.g. Earth orbits sun as it spins, causing days and nights, yearly seasons, that causes our minds and bodies to have evolved to sleep at night (one of millions of examples from evolution / nature). There seems to be a logical connection between these things. There are millions of examples of this 'logical reality' in all aspects of our lives (the internet and you reading this is another obvious example of this logically connected reality).

The rest is simple if you explore the most simple science theory to explain this apparently interconnected / logical world.
I have explained this elsewhere but I am re-writing it at moment, so will add a link here later with complete arguments (see my other recent posts in this "Say Hello" section of forum).

You end up with a wave structure of matter in space - clearly the most simple foundation, the existence of one thing, Space, which has properties of a wave medium. The wave structure of matter then explains this dynamic unity of reality (foundation of philosophy, physics and metaphysics) by explaining how matter is necessarily interconnected to other matter in space (by its in and out waves) and likewise the connection between matter and motion (matter is a wave motion of space). Thus we can also understand how logic exists, because of the necessarily interconnection of waves in space (waves in space behave logically).

Now I bet you a nice bottle of red wine, that you will find it impossible to prove that this is not true, that space does not exist, that matter is not a wave structure of Space. i.e. We can correctly imagine physical reality / what exists (I suspect that all people can imagine space, the hard part was imagining its properties to explain matter, rather than imagining matter as something 'separate in space' like a 'particle' (billiard ball naivety!)).

Your thoughts? But I ask that any statements you make as true, their source of truth is made clear. As we are talking philosophy of science, there are two sources of knowledge, our senses (which includes / requires concept of space), and logic from principles (nothing is more simple than principles deduced from one thing, Space and its wave properties).

Thus it seems to me impossible to argue against the wave structure of matter in space using rules of science, as space is necessary for senses, and WSM is the most simple foundation (Occam's razor) for principles / logic (and explains how this logic can exist and correspond to physical reality).

The only method to show it is wrong is to deduce things from the wave structure of matter and show that they contradict our senses. But as the WSM already deduces fundamentals of quantum theory, relativity, and cosmology, I think you will also find this impossible to do (if you know reality, it must therefore be impossible to prove that it is wrong / untrue. (see website, http://www.spaceandmotion.com - links at top of page)

Sorry if I sound abrupt and absolute. This is very important. If we can correctly imagine reality, this knowledge is going to radically change our world (which I think is a profoundly good thing, as it would be change founded on absolute truth, from true knowledge of reality, rather than current myth and its endless stupid brutal conflicts - the dark side of the well meaning view that we are each free to construct our own truths, which are as valid as anyone else's). Burke is spot on; "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Cosmos,
Geoff

[Peter]

Dear Geoff,

I used to have very clear cut views on LUE (life, universe, everything).

I used to use the word "truth", etc...

I don't do this any more.

A nice thing happened. The need to prove myself, or my ideas, as "right", fell away. I traced it back to my relationship with my parents. I dealt with the issue and a great burden was lifted.

You have a very distinct paradigm going on, which is a product of your reading. This is fine. But it is a only a paradigm. Problems occur when we begin to try to prove (what's the motivation?) that our paradigm is "truth." I don't even go near the word these days.

The mind becomes "abrupt" as it tries to "prove its theories." It is so easy to become obsessive/compulsive.

So many great minds have fallen into this trap, where they overlook their daily behaviour, mood, attitude, and relationships in there complusion to "prove their theory and radically change the world."

Yet, surely it is our daily behaviour, mood, attitude, and relationships that are a huge part of our contribution to the world?

"Pity the man who would be the boss, his wife and children will be his loss."

I am sure that you are onto something great and i like reading from your site - it's one of my favourites, but how exactly is your WSM theory going to "radically change the world" and bring untold "peace and joy" to the community of life on Earth?

Now, that's a question i would like answered!

Enjoy your study of Existence. When you and I are gone, Existence keeps keeping on.

However you look at it, Existence has made you human and part of the human world, and for me, it is our humanity that is perhaps the most important focus (especially in this dehumanizing corporate age).

Philosophy is "LoveWisdom" - "philo" "sophia"

I feel that "that road to hell" is often paved by obsessive/compulsive, self-righteous, egocentric, black-white thinking types (usually young men: ref: Dyogenes and Alexandar "the great"), with "something to prove", using words like "absolute" and "truth."

My dear Geoff, I have been around and seen a lot, and the greatest people i have met are those that live "with the Tao." People who are skilled in their profession, relaxed in their attitude, can accept mystery, ponder, and wonder, and always give the last word to "the mystery of Existence."

When the fruit is mature, it naturally drops off.

LOTS OF LOVE TO YOU AND YOUR BRAIN.

Peter

[Steve Anthony]

Hi,

I wonder if you'll both allow me to attempt a 'bridge' between Understandings?

I see this...We are currently living in an era where Consciousness becomes self-aware of its own Infinite properties, and can therefore no longer justify its 'merely Human' concepts, such as 'time', 'direction'? singular perspective, etc, to itself (which is US).

The real importance is that we ARE parts of Infinity (Space), looking at ourselves in the 'mirror' of our own Conscious thought. Our 'Unconscious' (subconscious) is what we really 'connect' with (in the largest possible 'infinite' sense), but our everyday interpretation (waking consciousness) now has greater access to our (Infinite) Unconscious (which has been interpreted as 'collective'), than ever before. (I'm thinking 'Internet'/'accumulation of Human based 'ideas'.)
In this way, we become more 'consciously aware' of our Greater selves, and who/what WE ARE, as we interpret further, this 'Great Unfolding'.

This is where a 'Great cycle' is completed. Where (our waking) Consciousness becomes self-aware of its own Infinite properties (through its links with the Unconscious)

All 'psychic phenomena' can be interpreted as 'The Unconscious, trying to become aware of itself' (make itself 'conscious'), so that it can interpret itself in a 'Conscious' and 'Real' (therefore, 'Honest' and 'True') way.

The Unconscious (Infinite being) is now 'aware' of itself. (WE 'ARE'.) This is the piece that connects US (Life) to our Infinite origin. (Space).

Can it(we) be Honest enough to look in the 'mirror' of its(our) own Conscience, and accept what it(we) is(are)?
Can it(we) be anything else except 'Honest', at all, if it(we) intend to survive further?

I personally believe that We need to overcome (transcend) 'Judgement', to do this. It remains the last 'stumbling block' to becoming more Infinitely aware of ourselves, as a species, and as of representatives of the Great Unfolding of 'Life', as we currently perceive it.

The Understanding of 'Infinity' still leaves plenty of 'Mystery', even when our 'finite' Universe would appear to be 'explained'. Indeed, the Infinite number of other potential Universes may remain 'mysterious' infinitely!

(ALL MY HUMBLE OPINION, OF COURSE!)

Love to ALL of US, and ALL our brains!

Steve.