simplication of concept; focus on practical application

[rascalimon]

Greetings,Enlightened Ones; My name is Jack,age 55.I am currently staying in the central valley of California,the location where I was born,after living much of my life in natural,forested areas on the edges of "civilization".I have understood the importance of living in harmony with nature since the early 1970s,and have made every attempt to practice that way of being,and whenever possible,to teach others that way of relating to life. In spite of my focus and intentions,the place of my birth,during my periods of absence,has evolved into one of the most polluted places on earth. Also,due to the way people are interacting with this area, and with each other,my understanding of Karma tells me that things here are very likely to get much worse.Therefore California, once one of the most beautiful and abundant places in this world, is rapidly approaching self-anihilation by the misdeeds of its' occupants.The same mentality that has miscreated this situation is also being applied to many other areas of our planet, with similiar outcomes guaranteed to occur,unless this pattern of unsound focus is somehow altered. My question to users of this forum, and particularly to its' creators;Can anyone describe (in non-scientific terms,if possible) how an individual being can APPLY the concepts presented in this website, in an effective way, toward altering this out of control abuse? ( of what has equal potential to manifest as Paradise\ Heaven on earth ) Blessings To All, Jack Lambert , Central Valley of California, USA

[haselhurst]

Hi Jack,
Thanks for posting. Your comments really touch me as it was this same experience for me - moving to the country (in 1990) and discovering that Nature was being destroyed (by generally nice well meaning people).

I came to the conclusion that knowledge / truth was the most powerful force of change for humanity (as history shows, it is knowledge that has changed us from primitive animals, though we still maintain primitive genetic traits of course).
As Hobbes wrote, 'Hell is truth seen too late'. I think we are creating hell on earth - this is why i got into studying philosophy and physics.
I do believe that the WSM is correct, that this knowledge will change the world as it tells us that we are structures of space / universe, not separate and discrete entities. Thus the environment is part of us, and as this becomes better known it must surely change how we treat our planet / ourselves.

So i hope that you will help us to get this knowledge known (which is not easy, but the internet is making it at least possible).
Please keep in touch - over the next few years there are a small number of us working together with hopes of both improving our knowledge of WSM and getting up the top in Google (so it is visible to world).
Obviously the world will change slowly, it is the next few generations that will develop the WSM the most. But if we don't make a start then things will carry on as they are (a disaster!).

Anyway, just a short reply. I sympathise with your despair, but i believe in truth, that in time we can work out how to live on this planet without destroying it / ourselves.
Sincerely,
Geoff

[Alison]

Hi Jack,
I live in a small 'city' in NZ. For the better part our country is as yet unspoiled, at least superficially. We recently had a documentary on TV about 'paganism' being on the increase. It was all very tongue in cheek, those interviewed were covertly mocked. Well, not that covert! Certainly I felt the reporters found people as far from main stream anthropomorphic convictions, as they possibly could, in order to highlight the rituals as 'ludicrous.'
To those ignorant of the meaning within the symbolism, all rituals do appear ludicrous, regardless of their origins.
We reveal the mirror to our inner world via our values of our outer world. The vis-a-vis nature of anthropomorphism is demonstrated in the way our 'planet' is ravaged, drained of its resources for our own ends (which in truth are against our own ends!), disrespected at every turn.
Having said that, we also reveal the same in our judgements of those who have not attained freedom from the belief they are separate from and do not have dominion over, the outer apparently material world.
The realisation 'as within, so without' is written within all that is, and who knows at what point it might awaken in the self conscious minds of mankind "en maase?"
So while it grieves me too, to see the wanton disregard we demonstrate towards 'Life, the Universe and Everything,' I recognise I am a part of this 'dance' - all of it, even the parts that break my heart.
Without humans this would be a magnificent, wild and fantastically savage garden. With us, perhaps evolution is becoming conscious of itself? We must have some use other than the heinous ones we are most noted for, we are part of the process after all.
Who knows. At times the pain we inflict and damage we do, threatens to overwhelm me, and then I remember we are still very very young in terms of evolution. Young, immature, fledglings. The universe has been unfolding without us and with us, I suspect it knows what it's doing.
So I focus on raising the level of consciousness within, led by a conviction it is only in this way 'for each in their own way', our awareness there is no separation will be realised, so that the world we create within, will be reflected in the outer realm.
ciao
Alison

[haselhurst]

Hi Alison,
You write very nicely, well said, thanks for posting here.

My only thought, that we must raise our level of awareness of the interconnection of all things, both within ourselves, and within others, since the two are subtly connected.

To do this we do not need missionaries, just write up this knowledge well and get it to rank in top ten in Google. That's it, people who are seeking the truth will find it. So I am very practical about changing the world, and i do not think this is naive, just using evolution / technology for the good of humanity.

Geoff

PS - And I am from Australia and I have not made any jokes about sheep, what restraint!

[Alison]

Hello Geoff,
I like that. It made me smile.
I'm thinking of James Lovelock when he coined the name Gaia (1969?) and described Gaia as more like an artefact than an accident...something created by life for its own ends. Resembling something like a large thought.
As well, something from Lyall Watson; Mathematicians in particular, derive information about aspects of reality which have never been observed and predict consequences which were previously unsuspected. They operate as though the world itself were held together by the same intelligence that flows through each of us.
My inclination is to see technology as a manifestation of the process of evolution, demonstrating the expansion of consciousness as the universe unfolds within/through-out us.
I look back 10 years, when I would starve for people of 'like mind' to bounce thoughts off, to such a degree that I'd pounce on any stranger who had the misfortune to reveal in my presence, a philosphical train of thought that embraced metaphysics/physics. The ground was very thin then, at least for me. Now we can search the net, we can find resources - extensive - on the net.
And this magnificent forum has been provided!!!
Such foundations are it seems to me, avenues via which our level of awareness is raised, and they promote us to think deeper, strive that bit harder. And as you say, that expands our awareness of the interconnectedness of all things, which in turn brings forth an otherwise absent respect.
Changing the world? This isn't a challenge of that, but I tend to the sense, it is the world that is changing us. Are we open to the change? For I sometimes suck in my breath at the thought, if we aren't, we are so very dispensable!
As for the sheep...
I admire your restraint.
ciao
Alison

[Richard]

Hi Alison, Geoff and Jack

As I lay in my tent on the northern shore, (the south coast of the Japan Sea) I listened to the generators aboard the shrimp boats which power their enormous arc lights; and became aware of the ripple effect of their intervention. These well-meaning fishermen were casting more than their nets to produce an over-abundance of dried shrimp on the dusty back shelves of every little convenience store on the apellago. It's the way it has been done for generations. Little did they know of the wave of pollution, both sound and light that was innitiated by their meager existances. One cannot tell another what to think, say or do. In organization theory, the force of change comes from three sources; within, without and above. We can only lead by example with hope that someone will notice.

More and more I subscribe to (Max Planck) A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die, and a new generation grows up that is familiar with it.

And still we try.

gassho to you all,

Richard

[Alison]

Hello Richard,
you're reply brought up a memory of a documentary I watched some years ago, Green Peace v Whalers, Russian in this instance. At the time I was a passionate supporter of Green Peace. It was a very well done doco, no bias exercised by the reporter who interviewed both 'sides'.
When it came to the Russian fishermen I was already confidant nothing they had to say would be of any value, they were clearly in the wrong after all. Then I listened as, in broken english, one of the fishermen said, "We have families to feed. You want us to stop whaling, give us another way to feed our families..."
My confidance in the 'right and wrong/black and white' of it, evaporated. I realised this is a truly complex issue, how do we tell people they have no right to feed their families, provide for them? Living things want to stay living, and 'parents' of every form of life, do what they have to, to feed their young. I never will advocate the extermination of any species, do not even remotely believe humans have dominion over ANYTHING thus the right to be wanton in their treatment of our natural world (which we forget we are part of) but I understood what that man was saying. How do we tell people, "You cannot do this anymore?" if it is their means of survival for them and their loved ones? Not unless we can offer them another means, do we have a hope of getting them to willingly change.
This is true on so many levels and through-out the entire structure of soci-economic existence.
Simple answers to complex problems, almost always miss the mark.
Anyway thank you for your thoughts and the memory they raised for me,
ciao,
Alison

[brodix]

A point to consider is that the modern monetary system functions as a form of public commons and it would be wise to regulate it as such. We still operate with the assumption, from the age of metal based currency, that value is inherent in the token, when it is the responsibility of the issuer to maintain the value of the money. Given that in a democratic society, the government is the property of the citizen and its currency is a form of public accommodations, similar to the highway system, it should be governed for the greatest good of the greatest number. This principle would not interfere with the basic rights of private property. In fact, if people were thus encouraged to invest their efforts into maintaining value within every aspect of life, rather then being tempted to drain reductionistic units out to store in a bank, this would lead to a healthier society and environment. It would also constrain the ability of the government to tax the economy.

[haselhurst]

Hi Everyone,
Thanks to all for your interesting and thoughtful comments, all of which are true as I see things.
I read a book called "The End of Evolution' about 8 years ago that made me cry in parts, at the destruction of life and nature, yet as Alison notes that many of these people rely on this to survive / eat.
Yes it is a complex issue.
The best solution is to find solutions founded on truth, not on good intentions combined with incorrect myths / customs.
This is what the wave structure of matter offers humanity. A simple sensible language that explains how everything is interconnected, provides a solid foundation from which to build a human society in a complex and at times brutal universe.

There is much to be done. Yes most people will resist new knowledge (Galileo, Darwin, Planck quotes). But it is important that the next generation has access to this knowledge so that it can at least be considered.
Several of us are working hard to use Internet / Google to achieve this (we are slowly learning and making progress!).
However, for the next 3 months Karene and I are away (traveling around world / visiting kids) so will not be on computer much. But over the next 2 years I hope to make significant progress. And I live in hope that some of you will see the importance of this knowledge and help write it up better and get it visible on net.

Again, I really respect and appreciate your comments. And please be patient with me for a while, as my contributions will be minimal for several months.
Cosmos,
Geoff


PS - Clearly a pure market economy / democracy cannot work, as it is not founded on truth, nor what is best for humans / humanity. It must be wisely regulated (not like communism) by being founded on truth and reality (about us, our biological and cultural evolution, our interconnection with nature / environment). e.g. Use of cars would be limited to minimize pollution and encourage physical exercise (yes humans evolved legs for a reason!)