Quantum Theory

[Chris Wright]

I am in the bizzare situation of having tried to understand all the flaws in modern physics before being introduced to the physics itself. So now I have recently been learning about the wave-particle duality of light, photons and the beginnings of quantum theory, and always with the idea in mind that they are wrong in some sense.
My thoughts on the issue:
Electrons being knocked out of their orbits by light (the photoelectric effect), seems to only happen in a given type of material with light above a certain frequency.
The assumption is that light's energy must be delivered in discrete packets, photons, rather than continuously, since if it were delivered continuously the same effect should be observed for all frequencies, though admittedly it would take longer for lower frequencies. And so it does not seem in this instance to be behaving as a wave (peculiar considering it produces interference patterns in other experiments).
But, to me, this depends upon the assumption that the deliverence of wave-energy must be cumulative - what is the basis for this assumption? What if electrons are only knocked out of orbit when they encounter a wave with a certain amount of energy, regardless of how long they receive that energy for?
I also feel uncomfortable with the idea that energy is related to frequency - E=hf. Why should it be? In every other wave-situation, the energy of the wave would be related to amplitude, not frequency.
Does the WSM clear any of this up?
Chris

[haselhurst]

Hi Chris,
Think of the different electron 'orbits' as different standing wave patterns of electron in atom / molecule. For the electron to move from one pattern to another it must resonate with other electrons of similar frequency standing wave patterns. Thus it is frequency that determines whether an electron can emit or absorb a 'photon' of light. If electron absorbs enough energy / resonates with other electrons in atoms / molecules then the electron's 'orbit' / wave pattern can become large enough that it escapes its bond with nucleus and becomes a free electron (photoelectric effect).
So need to be more aware of resonance - which is the foundation of Schrodinger's Wave Equations for determining stable energy states / wave functions of electrons in atoms / molecules (foundation of discrete energy states of Quantum Theory).

I do not know if E = hf is true for matter itself (rather than just light / resonant coupling). If you assume it is then you get;

E = hf = mcc
and,
c=fy (velocity = frequency times wavelength)
therefore;
y = h / mc which equals Compton wavelength of electron 2.43*10^-12m.

This seems to have been confirmed by experiments (Compton) so i assume it is true.
Geoff

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-Quantum-Theory-Mechanics.htm

[Chris Wright]

Hi Geoff.
Hmm, this is tricky to follow for me. I will read up on it all properly when I have the time.
I do feel, though, that by learning in school about these problems in physics, I can better appreciate the value of the WSM. It just all doesn't seem to fit together, and I can see why the desire to make it fit is so powerful.
Chris

[haselhurst]

Hi Chris,
I am glad that you appreciate that Quantum Theory does not seem to make sense. It is actually what started me on this (crazy) quest to understand reality, from reading Richard Feynman's 'Strange Theory of Light and Matter'.
Particularly;

I think it is safe to say that no one understands Quantum Mechanics.

One does not, by knowing all the physical laws as we know them today, immediately obtain an understanding of anything much.

The more you see how strangely Nature behaves, the harder it is to make a model that explains how even the simplest phenomena actually work. So theoretical physics has given up on that. (Richard Feynman, QED - The Strange Theory of Light and Matter)

The next question was - what makes planets go around the sun? At the time of Kepler some people answered this problem by saying that there were angels behind them beating their wings and pushing the planets around an orbit. As you will see, the answer is not very far from the truth. The only difference is that the angels sit in a different direction and their wings push inward. (Richard Feynman, Character Of Physical Law)

What I am going to tell you about is what we teach our physics students in the third or fourth year of graduate school... It is my task to convince you not to turn away because you don't understand it. You see my physics students don't understand it. ... That is because I don't understand it. Nobody does.
(Feynman, Richard P. Nobel Lecture, 1966, 1918-1988, QED, The Strange Theory of Light and Matter)

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This always bugged me, as i felt that reality itself was logical. That got me to reading Lorentz and Einstein, and ultimately to the ideas of the Wave Structure of Matter.
Look forward to your further thoughts (if you choose to study physics more). This will be interesting to me as you have knowledge of WSM that others don't.
Cheers,
Geoff

[Harry Costas]

Hello All

Electrons

In compact stars

The atomic structure of the atom breaks down to

from atoms to protons to neutrons to quarks and composites to preon particals and so on until we form the so called black hole which is really an ultra dense plasma matter.

We can see this in Neutron and quark stars.