Mind the spirit, please!

[Bill Back]

All,

We as individuals of space, perceive time from one point of view, now. We can focus on the past, the future, OR we can focus within the present moment, our choice.

Space time is absolute, from all points of view. All past and future are within the present moment.

Because we are of space we can experience absolute time as we realize we are not our physical bodies but we are space…. In other words: We are timeless spirit, temporally living in a material world….

“Who knows where the time goes?” , “send in the clowns, no wait they are here…” Judy Collins

[Steve Anthony]

Hi Bill,

To say that "we are not our physical bodies" is a little bit misleading, I think, and not in accordance with the site that concludes a 'Dynamic Unity of Reality'.

I understand what you are inferring, but it must be recognised that without the body, the mind could neither exist, and that they have evolved together, of necessity.

We are both physical bodies, and 'mind', and they work together as parts of one whole thing, the 'individual'. I am of the opinion that it is 'mind' which invents words such as 'spirit' in an attempt to describe things which it has little knowledge of, i.e. itself. But we should 'go into it' to discover for ourselves what we mean by the words we attempt to use.

So, I would be most happy to start a conversation regarding this 'mind/spirit' description of how we think, as it would help to clear a few misconceptions of what is going on, I do believe.


Steve.

[Bill Back]

Good point Steve,

We are our physical bodies for awhile, but we have eternal existence as space.
So you know what I meant even though the words were wrong. DO WE ALL THINK TOGETHER?


Humor: God walks into a doctor’s office and says “I am invisible.” The receptionist walks into the doctor and says “Someone is out there and he says he is invisible.” The doctor replies “Tell him I can’t see him.”


IF THERE IS ONLY ONE THING, DO WE ALL THINK TOGETHER?

[northjetty]

Do we think together?

"There are other reasons for focusing on matter waves. The funded Human Genome Project ambitiously proposes to completely unravel four billion genes of human chromosomes which determine the structure of our bodies. This structure is the hardware of our 'body computer'. Where is the software? We are born with many built-in emotions and survival mechanisms which are 'software programs'. Like 'consciousness', they occupy our 'mind' but have no 'identified physical location'. Since our 'unconscious brain' and its peripherals are the 'CPU' of our body computer, then 'matter waves' could be their 'internal communications mechanism'. These waves are 'not limited' in their 'range', so it becomes 'conceivable' that EXTERNAL MIND-TO-MIND and MIND-TO-MATTER can also occur. Survival is the primary goal of each organism, thus 'internal communication' would be the PREDOMINAT role waves while 'external communication' would be rare."-Milo Wolff

It's very possible that there is mind-to-mind and mind-to-matter communications taking place in the wave structure of matter, thus the "power of intention", "the law of attraction", "the power of right thinking", are all very probable according to this science. None of those ideas really rest on the uncertainty principle, they actually survive it's correction. I don't know if any of this applies to the I-ching or not? If not, then we can move it elsewhere with the rest of the off topic subject matter.

north jetty/the cosmos

[Bill Back]

Nj , You know I agree.

Also:
To get WSM more accepted we must show how it agrees and strengthens SOME of the concepts of religion and other branches of science. Hopefully they will begin to understand and apply truth to the rest of the concepts. We can’t be putting others down and expect them to listen to us. One can not tell someone else how to think. We all think for our selves yet we think together. We can explain our point of view in a positive and compassionate way. Also we must remain open to how other concepts apply to our point of view, as all conclusions are changing like everything always is….. We are getting closer to the truth as we THINK TOGETHER.

[northjetty]

Bill, we won't be addressing things in the same manner as we are here on the forum. This aggressiveness will have to yield to a far more Zen approach of calm collected information giving. We are going to have to take it easy when addressing people that don't have a formal knowledge of space waves. Rob's working on that right now. We'll probably have to edit until we get the 'opinionated stuff' pushed out and we are left with the 'facts' of existing matter and it's necessary connection. A lot of us have a rather aggressive approach here on the forum, yes, but we will certainly need to tone it down a little bit. We know this.

north jetty/the cosmos

[Tim Bourke]

Bill has asked,

If there is only one thing, do we all think together?

I find this question very interesting, one question I could put in answer to it is, what is a circle?

What I mean is, we can all think the idea "circle" and we know that nothing physical can ever be a full realisation of the idea "circle". Every circle I draw will be imperfect in some way if I look closely enough. Nonetheless, the idea of a circle is quite precise and can be communicated from one person to another.

So then, what is a circle? When I think the idea "circle", is it different to the idea "circle" you are thinking? Or are we all thinking the same idea?

[Steve Anthony]

Nice analogy, Tim.

Although we categorise ourselves as all 'Human', it may be worth a note that we categorise the rest of existence rather differently than we do ourselves. We are one of the most diverse 'species', in terms of shapes, sizes, colours, habits, etc, but when it comes to the categorising of other creatures, just a slightly longer beak, for example, can be enough to re-write an encyclopaedia.

In evolutionary terms, we are all pushing the boundaries of what comes next, and that necessarily means that we will all be unique, and yet come from the same origin. 'Evolution' accounts for this uniqueness in all things. Thoughts, as we know, come before actions, so that gives us the impression that 'mind' comes before 'body', but we also know this cannot be true, as at death the mechanical process continues when 'mind' ceases to operate.

So, the base operation (waves in Space) is a 'mechanical' one, and always returns to such, of necessity, regardless of whatever else this basic energy manifests into. Waves having a basic awareness of each other does not make all 'mind'.


Having said that, the evolved entity that is 'mind' is quite some amazing thing! And because of its extraordinary abilities, we must try and teach ourselves how to decipher Truth from our fantastic imaginings. I think this imagination is necessary to discover Truth, but needs to understand it's own subjectiveness before proclaiming all manner of wild things as 'true'.

To do that, we must dig deeper into the truth of things, and not let other peoples' descriptions cloud our judgment. Few, if any, have ever understood the things we are attempting to discuss here on these forums. This is because the truth about the fundamental workings of Reality can only have been speculated before now. So, we are treading new ground, and that means old thoughts will be shown to have been mis-represented; Not out of any 'falseness', but simply because they were educated guesses, and not the real thing. All previous thought has been necessary to reach this point of development, even if just to eliminate what is false.


'Mind to mind', I presume, is a speculation on telepathy? I think this may be possible, but we may have to consider whether we would let another mind into ours that we could not trust. This may be a self-inflicted barrier to why we are not more advanced in this area. It may be that we are believing it to be something 'advanced' when the reality is possibly very different. If we just believe what others say on the subject, how will WE know for ourselves?

Again, an observation of other creatures shows that some may be much closer to a realisation of this than we are, and it may in fact be quite a natural state. Fish, for example, seem to move as one in 'schools', and this is probably a protective measure against predators, so they would have to be able to naturally trust each other, otherwise the whole system breaks down; The same with many insects and birds. Penguins take it in turns to be barriers to the freezing winds, in a continuing circle of movement from the outside to the centre of the flock, and back again. They must trust each other without shadow of doubt to be able to do this.

With this in 'mind', the 'key' to telepathy, for Humans, may actually be Love! For what is 'Love', if not complete trust? And we can become closer by knowing the truth about Reality. Leaving no room for speculation or misinterpretations, that lead to arguments, denials and lies to manipulate with.


Steve.

[Rob Peritz]

Well said Steve.
Good to have you back.
~rob

[nisarga]

Hi Guys,

The circle example is good... expand it dimensionally to be a localized sphere... then explore dimensionally once again whereby the result is not so much what has come to be known as the fourth dimension but rather the Dimension of Now or the Here~Now that is a point called Center (it has location yet no physical dimensions - thus nothing is within it yet nothing is left out; its essential attribute is Stillness wherein/whereby complimentary extremes meet, interact, and balance).

Then explore Love. One facet of Love is the complete Trust that Steve mentioned; one face of Love is Dynamic Space as a receiver. In other words this localized sphere is empty of itself yet it is a Living Space that welcomes and embraces all it encounters.

The other face of Love is the giver, the broadcaster.

These faces, the receiver and broadcaster, are where all the mischief and beauty lies. It is Love and therefore perfect, absolute, yet in its perfection there is motion as broadcasting which is motion away from Center and receiving which is motion toward center. Thus there is dynamic relationship that simultaneously consists of motion away from and toward Center. This motion is Time and at any time either face may be dominant or they may be in balance/dynamic equilibrium.

The beauty and the mischief flowers through the intercourse of the two faces/phases of Love. The interactions of Centers is governed by the laws of natural order (Beauty) and the autonomy of individual centers is such that each has free will to act (potential mischief) within the laws of natural order (each is Love and therefore each has the power of Love to act autonomously)...

said another way - a localized center is Love that may act any way it chooses while honouring natural laws that govern the whole (Love) - for example - the individual can mistakenly identify itself exclusively as a localized center (self-Love as egoism) and miss the Truth that it/she/he is a localized manifestation of Love (or... Space, the unthinkable or whatever name you prefer).

Love is whole, complete, and LIVING. Its two-facedness is the means whereby the perfection of Love is revealed as the giving and receiving described above... although the great laws of natural order govern things whereby they inevitably balance such that identification as a localized entity dies, it is equally inevitable that the localized face of Love will arise again as this is also governed by the natural order of Love... thus there is no end to the beginning.

All of the above can be confirmed in the simple process of releasing and welcoming a quiet breath as the intercourse of inspiration and expiration; and on grander scales of complexity as one observes the intercourse (relationships) of respiration~circulation, a day in your life, a day in the life of the planet, the seasons of the year, and the seasons of the universe - these are the same in kind yet different in degree - all is Love.

In the Light,
James

ps - so do we think Together - I see it more as we are Together in Love and thinking and feeling are ways that we interact locally and globally... I receive what you (a localized center) are thinking when I am completely absent as opennenss or Dynamic Space that is impregnated with your thoughts.

[Bill Back]

OK it is clear to me now. Matter and Mind are the result of the motion of Space. All matter and mind are connected because they are of the one thing Space. This makes me think about the “wave structure of mind.”

It seems the only difference between Space and Spirit is that, Spirit is all knowing. If Space is all knowing then Space and Spirit are the same thing. If Space is not all knowing then space could be under the control of Spirit.

Is Space all knowing? (I say Yes. Maybe we should call it “Spaircet”, to combine the two words? or admit that Space and Spirit are the same One Thing.)

[Steve Anthony]

[northjetty]

"To say that "we are not our physical bodies" is a little bit misleading, I think, and not in accordance with the site that concludes a 'Dynamic Unity of Reality'.

I understand what you are inferring, but it must be recognised that without the body, the mind could neither exist, and that they have evolved together, of necessity.

We are both physical bodies, and 'mind', and they work together as parts of one whole thing, the 'individual'. I am of the opinion that it is 'mind' which invents words such as 'spirit' in an attempt to describe things which it has little knowledge of, i.e. itself. But we should 'go into it' to discover for ourselves what we mean by the words we attempt to use.

So, I would be most happy to start a conversation regarding this 'mind/spirit' description of how we think, as it would help to clear a few misconceptions of what is going on, I do believe."-Steve


Steve, this is the post that I was referring to with Bill. I thought that you were referring to the 'eternal perpetual vibration' of space as being it's spirit, or soul. If space is God, in our terminology, then what is the spirit of that God-of space? It's vibration, it's perpetual motion? These are 'real things' that directly relate to 'old concepts' like 'ever-existing spirits' and so on. The 'perpetual wave vibration of space' certainly drives the wave motions of space-the spherical standing waves-the evolution of our species. It's our base structure, our being, perhaps even call it our spirit?

We came from it, we are it now, we will return to it. All of the 'mechanical processes' of our evolution are driven by the vibration of space-an ever existing wave vibration which is distributing 'energy and information exchange'.

If we can call space 'God' around here, why could we not call the 'wave vibration of space' spirit? This would be like using the term 'spirit of God' as referring to 'wave vibration of space'. I'm trying to go with the flow of associating the term 'God' with 'eternal space' as we've been doing around here. I thought that this applied to your above statement about the inter-dependent relationship of things like body, soul/spirit/mind.

north jetty/the cosmos

[Steve Anthony]

[nisarga]

Hey Steve,

I would like to make the case for the term 'Breathing Space'.

[northjetty]

James, breathing space is good. I like it. I need to go into something a bit further here though with the other terminologies for a minute.

"If we divide them into separate things, 'problems' occur. We cannot correlate 'separate things' with a reality that is not separate.

If we then say that this one thing is all of these past descriptions, we are still left with the question, "well, what IS it, then?" - and the answer is WSM"-Steve



Ok Steve, I'll try to tighten this up a little bit further. We've been evloving a bit while you were away as you can see by James well thought out post. God, spirit, soul, space, vibration, mind, all apply to an 'inter-dependent' eternal space in motion. It's impossible to describe anything as separate while being an infinite medium, in an inter-dependency. All of these terms are quite obviously tied together in some way and that's really my main point here. They each 'point' to the reality of 'eternal space', it's 'one vibration' existing throughout the magnitude that allows 'existence to exist'.

spirit:

fundamental nature; essence-very to the point

the 'vital principle' or 'animating force' within living things-very to the point


The 'spirit' of our life is quite 'obviously' the vibrational wave 'energy', or 'animating force' of our 'evolutionary biological processes' in short (this is what 'drives the process of evolution' so to speak, no personification necessary). Christians hold that "God is spirit", which is easily tied in with the eastern concepts of it's origins, which connect the two terms into 'one' thing always. This is like saying that "space is wave vibration", the 'one thing existing'.

'Wave vibrations of space' are the very 'energy' of it's existence, the very 'spirit' of it's existence, and the 'vibrations of space', are indeed 'one'. The 'space wave medium' and it's 'wave vibration' is clearly 'one', and the mythological 'God' and it's 'spirit' that inhabits 'all things' is 'one'.

I'm not convinced that it's an incorrect association to make. It brings everything into the understanding of 'one'-ontology. The more progressive Monotheist's should be able to appreciate this break through of opening up some common ground. The Pantheist's have always believed this anyways. The atheist's should be able to appreciate this in that it cuts out the 'unnecessary personifications' that have been associated with monotheism and pantheism in the past-this is the cause of confusion.

The lost Gospel of Thomas, logion 77

" Jesus said, I am the light that is over all things. I am all: from me all came fourth, and to me all attained. Split a piece of wood; I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there."

This sounds a lot like a 'finite man' existing on a 'planet of space', realizing that he is actually of 'infinite space'. This is a very good lesson on true physical reality.

north jetty/the cosmos

[Bill Back]

Space (or what ever word we use) sums it up with the statement “I am.”
Individuals say “It is” Realizing unity I like to say “We are it.” All is One, One is All.

The more words we use to describe IT, the more complicated, confused, farther from the truth we get.

The truth exists without words….Maybe it is time to edit. Go back over all our good words and reduce them to the simplest expression. To be what we are, to live and enjoy life, not try to explain it. But to know it and know that we all know it, because WE ARE IT.

[Steve Anthony]

Hi,

James, here is another extract from I Ching...

[northjetty]

The only reason I'm going into the 'spirit' terminology is because we are speaking on a thread entitled "mind the spirit, please". This is what we are talking about here. We have to show how it applies to 'space waves'. The definitions match the understanding that space has 'necessarywave vibration' to itself that keeps it 'perpetual and ever-existing' and enables life to exist.

We don't shoot for words like 'spirit', or 'soul', or 'God', but we have the 'ability' to address them in terms of how there definitions apply to the reality of 'space waves'. In this case, the definition of the term 'spirit' applies very directly the 'vibrational wave nature' of the one 'space wave medium' itself. So it's merely an alternate word, something that can be associated with the 'raw energies of existence' if and when it's the issue at hand.

It's best to say 'space waves', or 'eternal space wave medium' and let every one figure out the rest for themselves, true, but if they want to know how something like 'spirit' relates to 'space waves' then it's pretty easy to see the connection. This does require some effort-to see past the 'preconceived' idea that these terms hold 'no value' with respect to truth. They can all be applied to the truth, and people are going to want to see the connection-how these things apply to real 'space waves'. So what now, do we vote whether or not to throw away traditional terms?

"In the study of WSM physics, it is probable that we may find "Turtles all the way down" as follows: At first we feel lucky because the wave-structure of matter neatly avoids the need to find an ultimate smallest particle as the building block of matter; No discrete point particles. Space itself is the basic material of the WSM. A space resonance is the basic building block. Space neatly defines length, time and mass, the origin of laws and the ‘particle zoo’ is the appearance of higher resonances. Wave-particle duality and other puzzles simply evaporate. But knowing all this, one more mystery pops up, "What is space?" Now we have to understand why space provides all the properties that we thought we had so cleverly explained. We are back to square one, smaller of course, but there are still "Turtles all the way down". 'There is never an end to the questions'." -Milo Wolff

There's plenty of room for considering how a 'wave vibration' is occuring throughout the magnitude of the medium of space-space being an absolute mystery according to Milo here. The wave medium itself is 'vibrating' and this isn't from an outside factor, it's a 'self vibration' on the part of the medium by it's waves-the wave vibration/spirit and the medium/you, are 'one'. The 'wave vibration is not separate' from the 'medium', and the vibrating wave medium is ultimately pure 'mystery', according to Wolff.

Remember, the term 'God' is a reference to the 'ultimate mystery' of being-of the 'wave medium vibration' in this case. This is what a study of 'space' reveals. I'm looking at this cosmology from the persespective of some one who 'realizes' that they are indeed learning about 'God', The absolute 'mystery of being', through physical science observing the 'space' that we dwell in and are part of.

north jetty/the cosmos

[Bill Back]

I have read this thread of the forum over and over. I decided to edit it, and got it down to one word. It is a word that will likely spark a lot of response as to its relation to WSM, DUR. It is a word that has a different meaning for each of us, but it is a word that makes us all feel the same. It says it all. We should all write this word together, and think together and get everyone to think together. It is a divine commandment or at least a divine suggestion. And so I reply to the subject “Mind the Spirit, Please” : Love.

[Bill Fisher]

Bill

Didn’t you replace the hands on your watch with the word NOW?

The Power of Now

How about: The wave structure of NOW?

Everything everywhere happens now

Now connects everything together

When you’re in the now you don’t have time

Mind the spirit please mind the now

[Steve Anthony]

[nisarga]

Hey Steve,

You said [in part]

[Steve Anthony]

Nicely put, James.