Mind the spirit, please!

[nisarga]

Hey Steve,

Yes - 'Yoga' is a term that can be applied to all ways of life.

The many approaches of yoga all based on realizing the Dynamic Unity of Reality.

Yoga can be broadly classified into four paths that reflect the four dominant tendencies of human beings:

- the emotionally dominant follow the Path of Love: Bhakti Yoga

Bhakti is the path of devotion, the process of understanding universal Oneness through Love. Most religions emphasize this spiritual path because it is the most natural. As with other yogas, the goal of the bhakta, the devotee of Unity, is to attain the living understanding of Oneness. The bhakta attains this through the power of Love and by observing the definition of Love - do unto others as you would have them do unto you - Love thy neighbour (branches) as thyself (source-oneness).


- the intellectually dominant follow the path of Knowledge: Jnana Yoga

Jnana is the path of knowledge. Jnani practice involves the powers of the mind to discriminate between the real and the unreal, the permanent and the transitory. A Jnani's knowledge includes and transcends the intellect without self-contradiction. It is the living understanding of the singular relationship composed of what is called Brahman (source) and Atman (branches).


- the physically dominant follow the path of Work: Karma Yoga

Karma is the path of action or work. Karma practice is the path of dedicated work. The practitioner renounces the results of his/her actions as a spiritual offering rather than hoarding the results for him/herself. Karma followers understand that the one who sees action in inaction, and inaction in action is truly wise. And, by emphasizing being (source) rather than doing (branches), this person accomplishes everything.


- the meditatively dominant follow the path of Meditation: Raja Yoga

Raja is the royal path of Meditation. As a king maintains control over his kingdom, so Raja followers maintain vigilant watchfulness over the kingdom of the local mind (branches). In Raja practice the mind's abilities are used to realize Oneness through the process of causing the mind to see its limitations, and, allowing the mind to relax which reveals what was always there naturally (source).


Each of these have many subcategories and there are many combibed forms. The yoga exercises that are currently very popular are from Hatha Yoga that is the third limb of the eight limbs of Ashtanga Yoga that in turn comes out of Raja Yoga and the Yoga Sutras of the being who is said to be the 'father of yoga' - Sage Patanjali (no one knows for certain if he actually existed - he is depicted as having a human upper half and his lower body is that of a serpent).

Namaste'
James

[northjetty]

"Our task is to try to understand this two-fold existence, and find the LIVING TRUTH within ourselves, so that we can also live within the Reality of the rest of it. However, one damaging cultural pattern is the propensity to 'pick a side', in which a 'repeater' will conflict with a 'changer', or vice-versa, and this is the barrier to our understanding each other better. This is also the internal conflict of all people (and things!) that we can overcome by understanding it, or by simply just watching and observing in 'real-time' (Now!), without the need to make a judgment, or 'pick a side'. And thus we are Harmonious; non conflicting"-Steve

Now this is some good writing here Steve-it sounds logical. But I'm 'struggling' with how it relates to our 'simple science' section? There, we have the 'either or' option of deciding what makes more sense, 'all mind' or 'all space. I've read through it myself and I must say that 'all space' seems to 'win' the 'either or' between the two choices.

This is tough, because an 'either or' position taking between what different people in the world 'believe to be truth' seems to be 'necessary' here in order to be in 'alignment' with the actual 'truth' of reality. Now you yourself have obviously 'picked a side', or an 'either or' in terms of choosing 'all is mind' over 'all is space'-you are promoting 'all is space' over 'all is mind' on this thread and joining in on the 'side taking' that you yourself are preaching against in the above post - The above quotation may require an 'added depth of thought' on your part if we are 'not to take sides', as you are clearly suggesting with your above post - We shouldn't take a 'side' on idealism or WSM according to your logic.


north jetty/the cosmos

[Steve Anthony]

NJ,

When you (or indeed 'the site') pose an 'either/or' question, it leads you to make a decision, does it not?

The above question is posed from a fictitious point of view, a pure speculation that separates 'mind' from 'space' in the first place.


And as Geoff says, we then argue over something which does not exist. A non-starting question is posed, because we now know that all is waves of Space, so to even speculate that all might be 'mind' is pure folly, particularly when we endorse a web-site that proves otherwise.


I have a slightly different opinion of the 'masses' than Geoff. And calling them 'they' is a form of division between yourself, who likes to have some distance between the often very stupid things that ALL Humans do, and the very important work that we are trying to carry out.


I think these subtle divisions are the very things that stop us communicating harmoniously. They are in no way intentional, just extensions of our cultural upbringings, but we see them as personal conflicts when our 'views' are seemingly opposed.

And neither do I separate myself from any of this. Since coming here I have had to learn to tighten up my own language, and to do that I have had to realise that I may have been wrong, and also that I have to then consider the process of learning further.

[Rob Peritz]

Mind the Spirit, please.

It seems that if there is spirit/soul that perhaps this property of space or whatever it is, is sick, lost or at a low point as far as the human perspective is concerned...

[northjetty]

Nice post Rob. I was trying look at ways to relate the old concept of spirit to the truth of existing space - It seems that some can not appreciate this very much.

Steve, you seem to be on the right track with finding the 'middle ground', that's usually the 'right approach', but it can be 'relative' as well. In the case of 'all mind' vs. 'all space', there's 'no middle ground'.

In the case of an 'expanding universe vs. an eternal continuous wave medium', there's 'no middle ground', as you just verified with your answer.

But all in all, we need to look at whether or not there is a 'middle ground' firstly, which we have, I would certainly agree with you there. But if it turns out that there isn't a 'middle ground', then we probably have to take an 'either or' position', which you were just preaching about 'not' doing earlier - which is largely contradicting it would seem. I don't think that we can eliminate 'either or' position taking as an 'absolute rule' around here on the forum. It's evidently a 'relative position' in this case.

north jetty/the cosmos

[nisarga]

Hi NJ/Cosmos,

Re: taking sides - the either-or question of all mind or all space

I see that this is and isn't an either-or question as follows.

Just as all particles are waves yet not all waves are particles - All Mind is Space yet not All Space is Mind.

In this light there are situations where Space and Mind are the same thing whereby side taking is moot. Yet fundamentally it is clear that Mind is wave vibration (this is self-evident with your/my localized mind as it arises out of brain activity and when our brains are inactive as in dreamless sleep then there is Space yet no mind); thus it can be said that mind arises out of the wave medium property of Space just as particles arise out of wave interaction.
The Middle Way is the perspective that is appropriate to the moment which means that it can be absolute, relative, both, or neither... it is a Way of Being that is in harmony with Truth - therefore it has the same attributes as Truth (since we understand and are speaking about two things Space and Mind, then their relationship has fourfold possibilities as absolute, relative, both, neither; languages like math have this as infinity-two-one-zero, other languages have this as all-either/or-both-neither).

Namaste'
James

ps - I feel that mind is inchoate energy and that matter is concretized energy (here energy is motion and motion is a property of Space as a wave medium)... with a name like 'cosmos' you may see the inchoate and concretized energy as chaos and cosmos or different degrees of order.

[Bill Back]

1. Mind the SPACE, Please. Can we say space is all knowing? All loving? All serving? Can we say it is not? If so, since we are of space, does space serve as the impersonal medium that molds form from itself according to all our true, thankful, loving knowingness?

2. What is the feeling of space? That feeling we get outdoors with the open sky above? The feeling we get when we look within and see infinity?

3. Geographically are the people of this forum spaced out between each other proportionally like electrons and stars, or are we closer?

4. “WE ALL NEED OUR SPACE.” “Ain’t that the truth” said Betsy and me while living and traveling for 2 years, with 2 big dogs in an 11ft. camper. We are experts in compact space living.

5. The shortest distance between people is a smile.

[Steve Anthony]

Nice David Bohm quote, Rob.

My posts were to simply point out how easy it is for us to get hung up on the word, without finding out for ourselves what we are even trying to say. 'Spirit' is an ambiguous word with many connotations, a subjective description, that is all. People use words as though everyone should understand exactly what they mean. Clearly this is not so, hence the need for clarification.

Why? Why do we not understand each other when we use the same language? Do we go into these kinds of questions thoroughly enough? Obviously not, otherwise the 'problem' would not persist.

[northjetty]

James, nice post again. I need to go over it some more. I'm always hesitant to get caught in having to go right or left, light or dark, I'm always looking for the balance. On the main site however, things are being presented in a 'choose one or the other' sort of way. We'll need to work towards understanding why that is?-whether that's the correct presentation of the information? This isn't my site of course, it's Geoff's, and it's his presentation, so that's the guy that you guys are ultimately critiquing here. He has presented an 'either or' between 'all space' and 'all mind' and his position on 'all space' seems pretty solid. I don't know whether he's up for suggestions on it? It's for the science community, his order is important for presenting it to the science community. It has to be rock solid to withstand peer criticism.

We've all been around these spiritual things several times over, at least those of us speaking on this thread. I know that you guys know that there is only 'one thing existing' and you know that I know that there is but 'one thing existing'. We know that the 'one thing' is a 'continuous wave medium'. How do I know that we know this? Because I've read each of us post it many times over.

People are simply trying to investigate what is 'possible' with this 'one continuous wave medium' that we are all made out of. I prefer to call space in motion, spirit, or the eternal spirit. If I ever use that word(s), 'eternal space in motion' is what I mean by it. If some one says, "spirit, what is that?' I'll just say, "Oh excuse me, eternal space in motion".

"The matter wave theory has been happily integrated into her existing beliefsystem. She says "I just ignored the complex math, I don't understand it. Perhaps what we think of as God, is only the interconnections between us at this wave/particle level " and " I don't care if it is 'God' or 'matter waves', all I need to know is that all human beings are connected to each other and that prayer and my human thoughts are powerful and using the consciousness of my mind communicates them for me."-Milo Wolff

north jetty/the cosmos

[Bill Back]

Emotion- agitation caused by feeling. Is Space agitated by feeling?
Agitate - to cause motion. Arouse, disturb, shake… (vibrate spherically?)

Irritate- to cause painful reaction. We can be agitated without letting ourselves be irritated or angered, if we are in harmony. Space is always in harmony, it is difficult but possible for individuals because we are part of the Whole. IS SPACE AGITATED BY FEELING?

[Steve Anthony]

Because Infinite Space is fundamentally harmonious, the closer people get to a realisation of its Truth, the more harmonious, in Truth, they become.


~s§s~

[Bill Back]

“all I need to know is that all human beings are connected to each other and that prayer and my human thoughts are powerful and using the consciousness of my mind communicates them for me."

If space is agitated by feeling, perhaps: Knowing is feeling truth. Do we project thought through space by feeling? If Space feels everything and is moved, then this motion is through all of space, around and through us.

Unity (love) could be the EMOTION OF SPACE that manifests all, if space is agitated by feeling. Feeling the truth could be the almighty power that makes us and makes us free. Being absolutely positive, united, and loving is being in harmony with nature, space. The Wave Structure of Matter shows us how the Emotion of Space could be the motion that keeps reality going. The mystery is: not clearly seeing and feeling the motion of space, (the motion of the infinite unity). Humans get glimpses through the mystery. To clearly see the motion of the infinite unity we must realize beyond our individual being. We must be the infinite united loving being of space. ......?

[Bill Back]

Beside the physical senses we have nonphysical senses. We have a sense of balance, a sense of direction, a sense of space, a sense of truth, order, energy, harmony, love, and unity. From our individual points of view, we have a sense of well-being, a sense of humor, common sense and many others. Does space have a sense of self, of unity, a sense of us? Does this make sense?

If space feels then it must feel everything, and be affected by feeling, be moved by emotion, make waves of itself….. It is logical that space is aware. There is no proof that awareness of space makes waves, but this idea fits so well with what most people believe. Can we deduce that if matter, energy, time, mind and emotion are the result of space waves, then all the things must affect the waves of space, like in and out waves affect each other because they are all the same one thing?
“Love is a two way street.” If we feel space then space must feel us.

[nisarga]

Hi Bill,

Yes - Space feels!

Many sages speak of enlightenment and freedom...

If it is true that a being is not free it follows that something is keeping this person in bondage now - what is that?

Freedom is our real nature. Therefore the only thing that can hold one in bondage is mental misunderstanding or ignorance of one's true nature; this means that the mind is both the source of bondage and liberation for anyone who feels they are not free now.

And freedom IS space!

In this light it is self-evident that we ARE space AND we feel - in other words it is not so much that we feel space and space feels us as we ARE it and one of its/our attributes is that it/we feel (and it/we have all the other attributes you spoke of... like senses, motion and e-motion).

In~Out
James

[Bill Back]

simple summation:

“What most people call God or Spirit in terms of science is Space. Space aware of itself, feels unity(togetherness, love) and is moved by feeling this oneness. The motion is like "space boiling", (spherical waves). As these bubbles of Space bump into each other and overlap; energy, matter, mind and all the things appear. All the things affect Space because it is all one infinite unity, that, we also can feel and express beyond our individuality.” William Back
I have started to call myself a Metaphyartist. Smile!

NJ, it looks to me like a “turtle standing on its own back” (a yoga position).

[northjetty]

We are Part of the Universe

"Although we can envision each particle 'separately' as a 'pair' of IN and OUT waves, that 'pair' cannot exist without the 'presence of all the other particles in the universe'. It has no meaning 'alone'. Every particle in the universe 'depends on all other particles' to create its IN wave. Thus in a very real sense, we humans are part of the universe and the universe is part of us. We are totally 'inter-dependent'.

Take a breath now! ..... This forced conclusion is awesome. We have to think of ourselves, our 'bodies', our 'brain' and its 'mind', as inextricably joined with other matter of the universe. Every atom and molecule within us depends on the rest of the universe. If the rest of the universe did not exist we could not exist.

At this point we have to take a hard look and ask ourselves, "Is this crazy? Is this just philosophical speculation? Just a science fantasy? Or is there a way to prove that the universe really behaves this way?" The answer is: "Yes, the evidence is clear." In fact, it is much clearer than the old physics. The evidence is seen in the origin of the natural laws that have never been understood before."-Milo Wolff

We've all been through these 'spiritual issues' several times over now, at least those of us speaking on this thread. I 'know' that you guys 'know' that there is only 'one thing existing' and you know that I know that there is but 'one thing existing'. We know that the 'one thing' has the properties of a 'continuous wave medium'. Here's some traditional religious terminology applied to the continuous wave medium.

"I have defined these words based on WSM".

"Spirit / Soul is our hidden connection to God".

"God is the 'one thing' that exists, infinite and eternal, that 'causes and connects the many things' we experience.

Thus God is 'Space' and its 'wave motions'.

Thus 'Spirit / Soul' is our (invisible) spherical in and out 'waves'.-Haselhurst


People are simply trying to 'investigate' what is 'possible' with this 'one continuous wave medium' that we are all made out of. For religious purposes I prefer to call space in motion, 'spirit', or the 'eternal spirit' as is consistent with the above definition by Geoff. If I ever use the words 'spirit', 'soul', 'God', 'existence' it's certainly 'eternal space in motion' that is being referred to with these words-the continuous wave medium.

Now this is different than the idea that a 'spirit' existing as 'separate from matter' as many world belief's have evolved into thinking over the years-this is like thinking in terms of point particles, or discrete separateness. Matter is of 'spirit', just as matter is of 'space waves'. The continuous wave medium 'vibrates' with 'self wave energy' causing all of the finite forms that are 'made of the medium' such as ourselves. Space, as a self 'vibrating wave medium', has always existed so it must have a place in our evolving ideas of 'spirit/soul/God'. The medium is 'invisible' of course, just like the 'old concepts' of the 'animating spirit/soul/God' of 'all things'. Space has a presence 'everywhere', 'all the time', as the traditional 'spirit/soul/God' ideas suggest as well.

I would suspect at this point that the 'old ideas' that came into the minds of our ancestors about there being a 'spirit/soul/God' to everything, or an 'eternity to everything', is the direct result of our being 'physically' composed of an 'eternal reaching wave medium' that is 'vibrating' with 'wave motion', and our deep 'thought processes' have 'realized this' in the past-certainly not in full, but in steps. It's taken time and evolution to 'break existence down' to the understanding of a 'continuous wave medium', but we have accomplished it now with solid physics/philosophy/metaphysics.

So the 'old terms' could easily been seen to have 'paved the way' towards an all-encompassing 'new understanding' about true reality. The truth here is that the 'old terms' can't actually exist as 'separate from matter', they are actually referring to what the 'matter' of existence is made out of-vibrational 'waves of space' - of an infinite reaching 'wave medium'. It would seem that our true physical connection to 'eternity' is found in our invisible connection to the 'eternal wave medium'-our connection to the 'spirit of existence'.

"Hidden Connection".

Drop a rock, or consider the earth orbiting sun.
Things are clearly 'connected' - yet we 'do not see' the cause of these connections (we must imagine them).
WSM explains this with the spherical in and out waves which 'connect' the wave center particles to one another across universe. So these spherical in and out waves (which we do not see) are the 'hidden connections' between the 'matter particles that we do see'.-Haselhurst


ps-I'm going by 'space' from now on. The 'hidden connection' to all things.

north jetty/space

[northjetty]

Well, we took issue the term 'spirit', now let's look at the term 'mind' with the most liberal use of the term that seems 'possible' in space.

"Also, we will not be able to avoid the 'problem' of 'mind' until people attempt to understand exactly what this 'mind' is, and how it fits in with WSM. It is, after all, the very tool we are using to put all this together" -Steve

" You're right Steve. Somewhere in all of this we do need a 'solid' break down of the very word 'mind'. People have a broad perspective of the word 'mind' these days, so we need some sort of 'clear understanding' of the 'medium itself' ranging through the evolution of it's 'matter' to the 'human mind' - so we can see where exactly 'mind' enters into 'space' and then 'connect it' through natural evolution to the 'human mind'.

space wave medium??????????????????????????????????????human mind

If 'mind' is simply another word for having a 'physical brain' then 'mind' is very easy locate. We need only locate the 'origins' of a 'physical brain' in the process of 'space wave evolution'.

If the word 'mind' is associated with the word 'knowledge', or even the word 'consciousness', as energy exchange requires, then 'mind' is detectable from the formation of the finite SSW center forward. This would suggest that 'all' finite matter is 'mind', as 'all' finite matter uses 'knowledge', or 'consciousness', in it's necessary energy exchanges in space (a finite wave center is 'conscious' of distance and location etc.).

Both ways of looking at it here have 'mind' as being subject to the 'finite' aspects of 'infinite space', which is what the site is suggesting anyways-'mind and matter' are 'many things' that are connected by 'one' continuous space wave medium."-north jetty

"Hi All, I agree with all of the above (My above post, emphasis northjetty) - I think we just need to start creating pages when we find / think of good knowledge - And make sure titles are precise and as completely descriptive of content as possible.
(Please go through your old posts - you will find a lot that can be cut and pasted)" - Haselhurst


north jetty/space