Metaethics in Pessimism: Schopenhauer Nietzsche Mann Adorno

[Agamus Kripaitis]

Hi there everyone. I've only today encountered the WSM site, and would love to contribute to the discourse.

I am a college senior in New England, concentrating in Comparative Literature. My current independent study (two semesters) has me investigating the narrative of metaethics in pessimism, in the traditions of Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Mann, and Adorno (specifically), and moral/political implications of the symbolist response to the failure of language in the works of Hoffmannstahl, Joyce, and Beckett.

I have much to share, but i won't try to jam it all in here.

I am quite fond of Taoist writings, ancient Greek, the moral crisis of post-modern occult studies, long hikes through endless forests, mountaintop vistas, history, conceptual physics, and a few other things :)

[haselhurst]

Hi Agamus,
Don't you sound interesting! Thanks for joining and saying hello. You have knowledge that is a bit different than most (which kinda suits this forum!), look forward to learning more.
Cheers,
Geoff

[karene]

Dear Agamus,

Hello and welcome to the forum!
I am intrigued by your academic studies and glad that we share similar life interests, from ancient greece to long walks in nature & mountain tops!

First of all, and sorry if this is a stupid question, but can you tell me the difference between 'metaethics' and 'ethics'? Is it to do with metaphysics being a guide for ethical behaviour?

I believe that some philosophers who are known as 'pessimists' are in fact 'realists', speaking the truth (that perhaps we humans don't want to hear).
Buddha has been thought of as a pessimist in that the first noble truth of Buddhism (dukkha) is that suffering exists. I agree with Walpola Rahula that Buddha does not deny happiness in life when he says there is suffering;


Buddhism is neither pessimistic nor optimistic. If anything at all, it is realistic, for it takes a realistic view of life and of the world. It looks at things objectively (yathabhutam). It does not falsely lull you into living in a fool’s paradise, nor does it frighten and agonise you with all kinds of imaginary fears and sins. It tells you exactly and objectively what you are and what the world is around you, and shows you the way to perfect freedom, peace, tranquility and happiness.

... it is no question of pessimism or optimism, but that we must take account of the pleasures of life as well as of its pains and sorrows, and also of freedom from them, in order to understand life completely and objectively. Only then is true liberation possible. (Walpola Rahula, What the Buddha Taught)



Arthur Schopenhauer is known as one of the greatest pessimists of western philosophy. Which is not entirely without claim;

We can regard our life as a uselessly disturbing episode in the blissful repose of nothingness. ... Human existence must be some kind of error. It may be said of it, "It is bad today and every day it will get worse, until the worst of it happens." (Schopenhauer)



As a fine philosopher though, Schopenhauer understood the importance of truth (and humanity's generally feeble attempts to understand Truth and Reality!). At times I find Schopenhauer very amusing and believe ultimately he holds a very realistic (not pessimistic) understanding of the world.
Perhaps it is the nature of the philosopher to live detached from the world and (at times) look down darkly upon others (from the mountain tops!) which can be misconstrued as pessimism. As I live with a philosopher (my partner, Geoff) i am particularly sensitive to this trait (and know the truth can hurt). As Nietzsche and Schopenhauer write;

Heraclitus was proud; and if it comes to pride with a philosopher then it is a great pride. His work never refers him to a "public", the applause of the masses, and the hailing chorus of contemporaries. To wander lonely along his path belongs to the nature of the philosopher. His talents are the most rare, in a certain sense the most unnatural and at the same time exclusive and hostile even toward kindred talents. The wall of his self-sufficiency must be of diamond, if it is not to be demolished and broken, for everything is in motion against him. His journey to immortality is more cumbersome and impeded than any other and yet nobody can believe more firmly than the philosopher that he will attain the goal by that journey-because he does not know where he is to stand if not on the widely spread wings of all time; for the disregard of everything present and momentary lies in the essence of the great philosophical nature. He has truth; the wheel of time may roll whither it pleases, never can it escape from truth. It is important to hear that such men have lived. Never, for example, would one be able to imagine the pride of Heraclitus as an idle possibility. (Nietzsche, The Greeks)

UNSUITABLE FOR A PARTY MAN. Whoever thinks much is unsuitable for a party man, his thinking leads him too quickly beyond the party. (Nietzsche)

A man of genius can hardly be sociable, for what dialogues could indeed be so intelligent and entertaining as his own monologues? (Arthur Schopenhauer)


I look forward to your comments and learning more about your work. Below are some of my favourite Schopenhauer quotes. Hope you enjoy them!
Positively yours,
Karene



It is a ticklish question, the steering of the public, good and docile as it is on the whole. Although as a rule the absurd culminates, and it seems impossible for the voice of the individual ever to penetrate through the chorus of foolers and fooled, still there is left to the genuine works of all times a quite peculiar, silent, slow, and powerful influence; and as if by a miracle, we see them rise at last out of the turmoil like a balloon that floats up out of the thick atmosphere of this globe into purer regions. Having once arrived there, it remains at rest, and no one can any longer draw it down again. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

But life is short, and truth works far and lives long: let us speak the truth. (Arthur Schopenhauer, 1818)

For the incredibly great majority of men are by their nature absolutely incapable of any but material aims; they cannot even comprehend any others. Accordingly, the pursuit of truth alone is a pursuit far too lofty and eccentric for us to expect that all or many, or indeed even a mere few, will sincerely take part in it. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

Truth is no harlot who throws her arms round the neck of him who does not desire her; on the contrary, she is so coy a beauty that even the man who sacrifices everything to her can still not be certain of her favours. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

My guiding star in all seriousness has been truth. Following it, I could first aspire only to my own approval, entirely averted from an age that has sunk low as regards all higher intellectual efforts, and from a national literature demoralised but for the exceptions, a literature in which the art of combining lofty words with low sentiments has reached its zenith. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

I can bear the thought that in a short time worms will be eat away my body; but the idea of philosophy professors nibbling at my philosophy makes me shudder. (Arthur Schopenhauer)

Would anyone with a great mind ever have been able to attain his goal and create a permanent and perennial work, if he had taken as his guiding star the bobbing will-o'-the-wisp of public opinion, that is to say the opinion of small minds? (Arthur Schopenhauer)

[Guest]

[Philippe]

Hello and welcome.

I was reading your post and found it interesting. I also like Montaigne, he is so practical and readable but not so with Nietzsche. I had to read him as a student and he only gave headaches at the time. I haven't tried again since although some people insist that if you try hard enough, it does make sense... Maybe. As for Schopenhauer, I have just heard the name.

To answer your question about 3D time dimensions. A few years ago, I also thought about it and found interesting sites on the subject or rather mentioning the idea but basically it doesn't seem viable. More dimensions of space or time seems to make everything unstable although I can't remember the exact reasons and couldn't find the site again.

Time - If you think about it. Another dimension of time "branching" at 90 degrees from the one we know would not "stay still" but would create a new universe or a clone of ours. Unlikely and speculative.

Space - Another dimension of space seems to break all the symetries we know about and therefore must be forbidden. Although and strangely we can "create" it. Or at least we can create the projection (a movie of course) of a 4D object crossing our 3D space. I have seen it. It is fascinating. We can calculate all this with vectorial spaces which is not even difficult an can be done on a computer.

Hope this helps and will make you want to know more about the subject.

Best regards,
Philippe

[haselhurst]

Hi Agamus,
Great reply. Interesting. Karene and I really enjoyed it.
Montaigne, Schopenhauer, and Nietzsche are three of our favourite philosophers.

Chris Wright and i have had some interesting discussions / arguments over morality and its foundations. Your ideas are just perfect to further develop these discussions.
So great to have you here. Hope you enjoy our little (but growing) forum!
Geoff

PS - Why not three dimensions of time. Because this is a philosophy of science (metaphysics physics) forum and we only experience one dimension of Time, which is perfectly explained as being caused by the Wave Motion of Space. (Sorry to be abrupt, see page below.)
http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Physics-Time.htm

PPS - This post is getting long, and its title does not reflect its content re: metaethics. So can you please start a new post rather than replying to this one. You can open two browser windows so that you can have this page in view and copy text (if required) and paste into new post. Hope this makes sense - am trying to keep content of forum well organised and also easy for both people and Google to find! Thus having page titles / subject headings that reflect page content is important. Geoff (being more abrupt than he really means to be - it is late, have been working all day!)