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Intelligent design within infinite space
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Rob Peritz



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
Posts: 215
Location: Colorado/Alaska

PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 4:05 pm    Post subject: Intelligent design within infinite space Reply with quote

Intelligent design
There is room in infinite space for intelligent design.
Within an evolving finite universe there exists the potential for space to become aware that it exists. (I am aware, I am matter, I am energy/matter, energy/matter is space according to WSM, and so space is aware of itself to some extent within itself.) It is the nature of evolution or one of the properties of evolution to become self aware if for no other purpose than to try to escape it's own finite existence within infinite space and become eternal.

So as evolution progresses from standing spherical waves into minds capable of comprehending the intricate complexities of existence and the dynamic unity of reality and of its own existence and of the very substance that is space itself and so its own core substance, infinitely colliding to become finite matter in space and eventually universes of matter in space that eventually becomes aware of itself as space. Self-aware space, Intelligent space realizes that it is evolving space made of Waves in space....

This self aware space evolves into sentient beings (like humans) on worlds in orbits around suns. However these beings (humanity)are still evolving. This process never stops unless the process is reabsorbed into infinite space for one reason or another, and the process begins again.
Still We are not the end all of the intelligent design of evolution we are a phase of evolution wherein we may escape our finite reality and become like Gods roaming the vast multiverses of existence.

The process of evolution will never cease to be and even these sentient beings roaming the infinite realm must become something else by the very evolutionary process that exists as a property of the infinite space that they are and exist in.

Intelligent design may very well exist as a evolutionary process of these powerful beings, but when all is said and done, the only thing existing is the substance of space itself existing as a wave medium wherein the wave structure of matter causes evolution and the knowledge of this fact is the key and wisdom of the true nature of existence is the only law that matters.

It is possible that our corner of this finite universe is being manipulated by sentient beings who roam the multiverse but I also suspect that if these beings exist at all they would be very aware of their own place in evolution even more than we are and would be hesitant to mess around too much with their own substance space as the dynamic unity of itself...

catch the wave of truth and ride it to the beach of infinite wisdom.
~rob
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northjetty



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 18, 2006 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Excellent post rob. This is really what we are facing here. Infinity is a huge place to exist in. The possibilities are endless, literaly. One positive idea about this evolution towards the self awareness of space, is that all of this talking about it that we are doing is a divine act. Calling attention to the absolute, through physics, or religious metaphor, renders the same core messege. Everything is connected to everything. As this is truth from my perspective, I see the power in this idea to become the dominant human thought of the future. Thoughts of seperateness in nature, will become a thing of our ignorant, but learning as we go along, path of evolution. I have seen the world around me as seperate from myself, and I have been ignorant. I have logically found that it is not possible to divide existence into a duality. The dualities that exist, such as light and dark, exist within the singularness of existence. They both exist, so they are bound by the singular aspect of mere existence. That ties the one and the many together in my mind. From that discipline, I came accross the wsm, and needless to say, by showing space as existence, the formula immediately falls into place.

I'm glad to have met those of you who have been barking up the same tree, in your own individual paths. We can imagine whole universes acting this way, as they are all undetermined, so individual in that respect, but bound together by the common structure of space, as the matter for all of this undetermined, individual activity, of it's waves therein. I can imagine that other life forms and ourselves, are connected by space. I wonder wheather the substance of space is the source of our even having awareness at all. If it exist's now, awareness that is, it too seemingly can't have a particular origin, as neither infinite space, or the finite universe can have a particular origin. In a perpetual system, which is what the wsm describes, I would assume that awareness must be linked to perpetual existence in a very direct way. Space, is the intelligence, of any intelligent design through the wsm. I think that the randomness of an evolution doesn't nessesarliy make it an accident, rather a function. The function of random selection could easily be seen as an intelligent function. Like you stated, Space has awareness through us, so it is aware. And because we are becoming aware of motion through space, it has become self aware, if the substance wasn't self aware to begin with? That's what I'm pondering. You where suggesting that there is a constant awareness that has been engaged in evolution through natural selection, all while under the influence of perpetual motion right?

northjetty/the cosmos
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Rob Peritz



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi northjetti,
I Thank-you for reading and replying to my thoughts on this existence we share. There is just too much information and thoughts regarding science and evolution, religion and intelligent design, myth and imagination for one mind to, sift through, and to somehow, come to the truth of, this reality that we all share. So with our limited capacity we pick and choose throughout our lives what information to take in, and whose thoughts resonate with our own, as we formulate our unique perspectives on existence. So again, thank you, for reading my posts here, for 'listening to my thoughts' and for trying to understand the, reason, behind my opinions.

Now I will attempt an answer to your questions in regards to what I wrote in my post .

You wrote;
Quote:
In a perpetual system, which is what the wsm describes, I would assume that awareness must be linked to perpetual existence in a very direct way. Space, is the intelligence, of any intelligent design through the wsm. I think that the randomness of an evolution doesn't necessarily make it an accident, rather a function. The function of random selection could easily be seen as an intelligent function. Like you stated, Space has awareness through us, so it is aware. And because we are becoming aware of motion through space, it has become self aware, if the substance wasn't self aware to begin with? That's what I'm pondering. You where suggesting that there is a constant awareness that has been engaged in evolution through natural selection, all while under the influence of perpetual motion right? -(northjetti)


northjetti ~ In a perpetual system, which is what the wsm describes,
rob ~ First of all, and I think that you and I agree or resonate on this, I think that most of humanity has believed in a ‘perpetual system’ but throughout the ages, and even more so in modern times, people have referred to this perpetual system that is our reality in many different ways to name a few; God, Infinity, nothingness, space etc... But then, because we are ignorant of so much of the mechanics and goings on of existence we immediately contradict ourselves and claim a belief in creation, a time before, a big bang or a place other than, or beyond, what we experience as reality because it seems mysterious or miraculous or beyond our current reasoning ability.

northjetti ~ I would assume that awareness must be linked to perpetual existence in a very direct way.
rob ~ Agreed. Yes I believe the two cannot be separated however, I currently believe that awareness is a necessary property of infinite space and so serves a function that is not yet completely understood by humanity.

northjetti ~ I think that the randomness of an evolution doesn't necessarily make it an accident, rather a function.
rob ~ Agreed. I think that evolution is a property of infinite space and serves a necessary function in the development of finite universes

northjetti ~ The function of random selection could easily be seen as an intelligent function.
rob ~ Agreed. But that does not necessarily make it so. I suspect that the jury is still out on the true connection between evolution and intelligence other than that they are both properties of infinite space.

northjetti ~ Space has awareness through us, so it is aware. And because we are becoming aware of motion through space, it has become self aware,
rob ~ Agreed. However, space is so vast, measureless in so many ways, it would appear that our limited perspective is only a fraction of what there is to be aware of. Still that does not make our existence any less valid or connected, and I must say that the view from here, can be amazingly beautiful. Then again my opinion is somewhat biased.

northjetti ~ if the substance wasn't self aware to begin with?
Rob ~ Hmm..., If by “substance” you mean, the perpetual motion (waves)of infinite space (mostly rigid/slightly elastic) which is the dynamic unity of reality which cannot be separated and so is the one thing existing then I have to say that the substance has always been self aware. The substance is infinite and that means that from our perspective, currently as humans, that we are incapable of seeing beyond our finite universe however that does not mean that we cannot use reason and logic from observations of the ‘substance’ that we are connected to by the dynamic unity of reality to make intelligent speculations as to what lies beyond the boundary of our finite universe. Every universe in infinite space has the potential to realize that it exists. Because there is an infinite quantity of universes in space then I surmise that the substance has always been aware of itself as the one thing that connects all things. But the type of self aware intelligence that is the substance of space I surmise is way beyond our current understanding.

northjetti ~ That's what I'm pondering. You where suggesting that there is a constant awareness that has been engaged in evolution through natural selection, all while under the influence of perpetual motion right?
Rob ~ Right. I think I have answered this question with my above comments/opinions. However let me finish with this. Space has properties of a Continuous Infinite Eternal Wave Medium so evolution, self-awareness and intelligence, intelligent design and divine intervention are all possible within the realm of infinite space as I have explained but the one thing that they all have in common is the dynamic unity of reality, It's all about the waves man, it's all about the waves.

You wrote;
Quote:
In a perpetual system, which is what the wsm describes, I would assume that awareness must be linked to perpetual existence in a very direct way. Space, is the intelligence, of any intelligent design through the wsm. I think that the randomness of an evolution doesn't nessesarliy make it an accident, rather a function. The function of random selection could easily be seen as an intelligent function. Like you stated, Space has awareness through us, so it is aware. And because we are becoming aware of motion through space, it has become self aware, if the substance wasn't self aware to begin with? That's what I'm pondering. You where suggesting that there is a constant awareness that has been engaged in evolution through natural selection, all while under the influence of perpetual motion right? -(northjetti)


Thanks for keeping me up tonight northetti. My slow mind took three hours to write this post. Sorry it was a bit long winded.
~~~~rob

Here’s another one for you to ponder.
In reality I believe that there is nothing new. Still, time confuses us (humans) for we find ourselves in a quandary. Time begins and ends with each finite universe but space is infinite and so timeless. A conundrum for us mere mortals to fumble over. A puzzle. How can infinite space be finite? How can there be a beginning or an ending in a timeless realm?
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Aireal



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 3:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Intelligent Design

The concept of intelligent design is older than many suspect. The oldest reference I have found so far is by Abdul Hazzard from the 8th century. He was the supposed author of the Necronomicon, a mage who tried to resurrect the magic of ancient Sumer. In the Necronomicon he states that the gods and demons of ancient Sumer are in fact higher beings from other stars. No wonder they called him the Mad Arab. He claimed the demons of ancient Sumer were from the star system we call Draconis. He also said that we were safe from them for a time because they can not find us in the mass of stars at this time. But in the future, the star Draconis will again be our North Star which means our star will again be their North Star, and our ancient enemy will return.

This statement means he know about the tilt of the Earth and the procession it makes through the sky over a 24,000 year period. Long before "modern science" knew the Earth was tilted and revolved through space. He was not the only one with such knowledge long before current times.

The Mayan calender is the most accurate calender ever made by mankind. It ends and restarts on Dec. 21, 2012 when a rare alignment of our solar system takes place. Our solar system is also tilted in relation to the galaxy and does a procession through space from that effect, but on a much longer time frame than the procession of the Earth has. On that date one procession of the Earth coincides with one procession of the Sun and they will line up with the center of the galaxy. It was not that long ago that our astronomers learned of the tilt of the solar system and its procession.

Although all this is cool, it does not confirm intelligent design. For a good look at the other side of the coin I would suggest reading; Genesis: The Scientific Search for the Origins of Life. In their work they showed that the building blocks of life are hard coded into the very laws of science. Life of some kind is inevitable in any place it could survive, no help needed. But just because no help was needed does not mean no help was given, so they can not disprove intelligent design.

In an infinite universe, anything is possible, and to quote an old proverb, There is nothing new under heaven. In an infinite universe, odds are, its been done before somewhere. Yet in an infinite universe there is always the chance that something new can come along, so don't give up hope.

Back to the Mayan calender again. Every age in it has some predictions for that age and its end. Our last age started in 1993 and ends in 2012. During that time it says knowledge will be greatly increased, and ancient wisdom rediscovered. The end of the age will come with great loss of life, but this will lead to a uniting of mankind at the start of the new calender.

So lets ride the wave of time into the next age of mankind.

Little Feather
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northjetty



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah Rob, what we find through metaphysics is that there can not be a real begining, it's all about the waves, but they've always been here. " YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN THE CARE TAKER"-The Shinning. Aireal, I came across the same discovery in egypt, through the www.magicalegypt.com series. They found stones set up right in the desert, and they were spaced apart according to meters, for light years, and they directly map out the milky way galaxy.( The Origin Map ) There is a stone circle that follows the earth's tilt as well. It's very mysterious how this all came about. John anthony West, is proposing that we have evolved to a technological state in our past, only to have lost most of the knowledge of this, until we start finding the clues in our earliest 3,400 B.C.E civilizations of this ancient understanding of man and cosmos. It's an interesting series, that's also where they find that the heiroglyphic langauge carries a symbolic structure that points toward an understanding of science. The big questions there are whether the information source came from on the planet, off the planet, or just mirrors science because it's our art, and subconcious scientific references perhaps come out of this, because we are space, and knowledge, especially self knowledge, may be ingrained in every aspect of our being. I've found alot of references to the kind of ancient knowledge that you speak of aireal. It's a real mystery. I keep going over some it, looking for clues in these ancient knowledges that would show an understanding of wave theory. I have found some. A statement of particle wave duality does exist through the symbolic reading of the egyptian god AMEN. This is pretty mysterious subject matter.


northjetty/the cosmos
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Rob Peritz



Joined: 11 Apr 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 4:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI Aireal,
I enjoyed your post. I have high hopes for the year 2012 for I am an optimist trapped, it seems, on a dying planet. I'm deeply saddened by this fact and many other things as well, still, I remain hopeful that humanity will somehow survive and come to it's senses before it's too late. I have read that the next stage of evolution may take place in the year 2012. It has been imagined that people will literally evolve overnight. Now I know that that sounds crazy to many people but I just hope it happens that's all. I want humanity to evolve for millions of years to come but not if we don't overcome our dark side. I shudder at the thought of some people being loosed in the galaxy. That's why I hope 2012 is the year of change for the people of Earth. If not by evolution then by technology. Possibly nanobots or the internet. Hell, I’d settle for all of us just simply coming to our senses.

Anyway I don't know what my little rant has to do with this thread on the possibility of intelligent design in infinite space or the WSM for that matter.
Thanks for posting on this thread though. I did learn a few things.
~rob

PS - I was wondering why you are referring to this universe as infinite? The WSM clearly states that our universe is finite.

You wrote;
Quote:
In an infinite universe, anything is possible, and to quote an old proverb, There is nothing new under heaven. In an infinite universe, odds are, its been done before somewhere. Yet in an infinite universe there is always the chance that something new can come along, so don't give up hope. -(Aireal)
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Aireal



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rob

Sorry, In an infinite space with an infinite number of finite universes, would have been more accurrate. Missed that one. The terms we use do not always have the same meaning to others, or what I grew up with. I try to use them they way W.S.M. defines them, but I slip sometimes.

Charles
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Rob Peritz



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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

HI Aireal,
You know, I think that misunderstanding and misuse of words is the main reason that humanity is where it is today, precariously balanced on the edge of extinction. I believe that people have been talking nonsense for too long. I hope that we will all soon all be nodding our heads and saying; "Wow..., I get it now... Is that what philosophy and metaphysics is all about? Is it all really that simple?"

Anyway that's what I think that this forum is all about, trying to find the right words to show the common, average person (most of us) that we are all brothers and sisters living on a fragile world that needs a little tender loving care right about now. I just have to keep believing that we’re going to make it and do what I can to bring this world around to the truth and sanity of the dynamic unity of reality.
take care little feather
~rob
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haselhurst
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is wonderful to see you guys developing into philosophers.
Learning to be precise with language, to carefully define your words, their relationship to physical reality.
This is the correct way to make progress.

Good on you.
Geoff

'Philosophical problems arise when language goes on holiday' (Wittgenstein)
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northjetty



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 1:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoff, I'm understanding that the finite spherical universe, has always existed in infinite space. The star systems, which are a part of finite universe, would be always living and dying, and living again, in this perpetual system. The begining of a solar system, being the end of the last one. As for the finite universe, is it too cyclic, because I'm assuming that the universe, through the wsm has no real birth, or begining? I want to zero in on the proper terminology here.

northjetty/the cosmos
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haselhurst
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi NJ,
It is clear that there are cycles for the birth and death of stars, and this probably extends to galaxies as well.
But I don't know if there are cycles for the universe as a whole.
Given that the universe is just the finite spherical region of space (within infinite space) where we see and interact with other matter (its outwaves create our inwaves) then I am not convinced that there are cycles at the universe level (it is just part of a perpetual system of waves in space).

Certainly there is no cycle like the Big Bang may suggest - of the universe arising from 'no space and time'.

Sorry I can't help more. But it is important in philosophy to clearly show both what we do know, and what we don't know!

Cosmic cheers!
Geoff
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galaxy*19



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:09 am    Post subject: no time to waste Reply with quote

I have an obscure objection with time. Call it a quirk, but it is a concept that i have never been able to fully accept as 'concrete' and therefore 'real'. I like to use the term loosely, and occasionally to make appointments, but overall, in the inifinty that is our existence, we need something to keep track of everything. And time surely weighs that burden. SO in a way, me saying i dont believe in time, is totally irrelevant and (sorry) somewhat irresponsible.
However, Very Happy My point here was not to sourly object to time, but to point out that the 'changes' involved with the 'shift' or 'transition' beyond the year 2012 ---- may have something to do with perception of time, and space, and waves..... as we realize them all as Infinity.

But i dont think this is something that 'happens over night' unless,
your perception of time were altered so sever-ly that time did either stop, or started moving infinitely fast (doesnt it seem like time is speeding up?)
(Here I am pictureing a piece of 3D spacetime being shaped like a cone, with the opening facing up. if you travel across a 2 d line from left to right, tracing the top layer of the 3d drawing, it goes down like a vortex..)

Ok, and so the center of our galaxy, is a giant black hole, and if the earth is going to align with this center, then we are going to be lined up with the Whole.

It's like if you could sit at the index page of the internet and have instantaneous access to every page/pic/file/etc on it.

And that is because we are all connected on the field..
and the field is also where zero-point energy comes from.

BTW, I prefer humor and positive thinking. If we are divine acts, then i want to spread and manifest only joy and creativity. Do! dont sit around waiting for the world to change. Change it! It's time to sit really hard and think what you want it to become.
I believe every possible world becomes because of the awareness that we possess. WE perpetuate infinitely. There is no black and white, only pure being in between. Balance, oblivion, all are possible in Infinity.
But we as sentient beings are not short of gifts. FOr we created ourselves in this world, as in any other, as we continue to travel through the stars.

I dont look out and see anything short of a beautiful and abundant multiverse of possibility. And even here in my own life, I am free...

Rob Peritz wrote:
HI Aireal,
I enjoyed your post. I have high hopes for the year 2012 for I am an optimist trapped, it seems, on a dying planet. I'm deeply saddened by this fact and many other things as well, still, I remain hopeful that humanity will somehow survive and come to it's senses before it's too late. I have read that the next stage of evolution may take place in the year 2012. It has been imagined that people will literally evolve overnight. Now I know that that sounds crazy to many people but I just hope it happens that's all. I want humanity to evolve for millions of years to come but not if we don't overcome our dark side. I shudder at the thought of some people being loosed in the galaxy. That's why I hope 2012 is the year of change for the people of Earth. If not by evolution then by technology. Possibly nanobots or the internet. Hell, I’d settle for all of us just simply coming to our senses.

Anyway I don't know what my little rant has to do with this thread on the possibility of intelligent design in infinite space or the WSM for that matter.
Thanks for posting on this thread though. I did learn a few things.
~rob

PS - I was wondering why you are referring to this universe as infinite? The WSM clearly states that our universe is finite.

You wrote;
Quote:
In an infinite universe, anything is possible, and to quote an old proverb, There is nothing new under heaven. In an infinite universe, odds are, its been done before somewhere. Yet in an infinite universe there is always the chance that something new can come along, so don't give up hope. -(Aireal)
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galaxy*19



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, ancient civilizations because in a land without time, the ancients were just other evolved versions of ourselves. We were, have been, are, and always will be the 'gods' or 'creators' of our own little 'universe' as much as we have an influence over it.
A key to that influence is in our choices we have while we interact with it. LIving is a constant interaction of energy with other energy. All ennergy involved is effected by all other energy involved. If our universe is all deeply interconnected (by the root) energy, then the thoughts and actions, the way the energy interacts, IS the energy.

WE are the Wave...

[hehe, i tend to function randomly, unless guided, and hopefully by the better aspects of my 'self' .... It's not about who or what guides, but that we are constantly waving.]

And we do all have that guiding creating force. It is what we are made of.
ENergy.


northjetty wrote:
Yeah Rob, what we find through metaphysics is that there can not be a real begining, it's all about the waves, but they've always been here. " YOU'VE ALWAYS BEEN THE CARE TAKER"-The Shinning. Aireal, I came across the same discovery in egypt, through the www.magicalegypt.com series. They found stones set up right in the desert, and they were spaced apart according to meters, for light years, and they directly map out the milky way galaxy.( The Origin Map ) There is a stone circle that follows the earth's tilt as well. It's very mysterious how this all came about. John anthony West, is proposing that we have evolved to a technological state in our past, only to have lost most of the knowledge of this, until we start finding the clues in our earliest 3,400 B.C.E civilizations of this ancient understanding of man and cosmos. It's an interesting series, that's also where they find that the heiroglyphic langauge carries a symbolic structure that points toward an understanding of science. The big questions there are whether the information source came from on the planet, off the planet, or just mirrors science because it's our art, and subconcious scientific references perhaps come out of this, because we are space, and knowledge, especially self knowledge, may be ingrained in every aspect of our being. I've found alot of references to the kind of ancient knowledge that you speak of aireal. It's a real mystery. I keep going over some it, looking for clues in these ancient knowledges that would show an understanding of wave theory. I have found some. A statement of particle wave duality does exist through the symbolic reading of the egyptian god AMEN. This is pretty mysterious subject matter.


northjetty/the cosmos
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galaxy*19



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 4:33 am    Post subject: last but not least Reply with quote

Hi Rob, Thank you for your insight and waving words.

Rob ~ Hmm..., If by “substance” you mean, the perpetual motion (waves)of infinite space (mostly rigid/slightly elastic) which is the dynamic unity of reality which cannot be separated and so is the one thing existing then I have to say that the substance has always been self aware.
galaxy*19~ i like this part a lot ^

Rob ~
The substance is infinite and that means that from our perspective, currently as humans, that we are incapable of seeing beyond our finite universe however that does not mean that we cannot use reason and logic from observations of the ‘substance’ that we are connected to by the dynamic unity of reality to make intelligent speculations as to what lies beyond the boundary of our finite universe. Every universe in infinite space has the potential to realize that it exists. Because there is an infinite quantity of universes in space then I surmise that the substance has always been aware of itself as the one thing that connects all things. But the type of self aware intelligence that is the substance of space I surmise is way beyond our current understanding.
galaxy*19~ I'm not so sure it is that far 'away'. If we can lose track of time, then what about it's intimate relationship with space. Seems like we're shifting into higher dimentional realms as we progress through our evolution. Which seems to have a conclusive direction of always going. In order for something to go on forever, to go on infinitely, it must take on every form on its journey. EAch time leading new paths.
Perhaps humanity as a whole can only grasp humanities face of the universe, but at least that is ours to live.
I am all for it ~ Life.

Rob ~
Here’s another one for you to ponder.
In reality I believe that there is nothing new. Still, time confuses us (humans) for we find ourselves in a quandary. Time begins and ends with each finite universe but space is infinite and so timeless. A conundrum for us mere mortals to fumble over. A puzzle. How can infinite space be finite? How can there be a beginning or an ending in a timeless realm?

galaxy*19~ see previous post for this one... yes i like going in circles.
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Aireal



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PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 7:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Galaxy*19

It is great to hear from you again. I know it has not been that long, but as you can see, things have been busy around here. I hope all is well with you. I for one have missed your insightful and upbeat posts. Much better reading that my dry scientific ones.
I particularly enjoyed this statement you made. "BTW, I prefer humor and positive thinking. If we are divine acts, then I want to spread and manifest only joy and creativity. Don't sit around waiting for the world to change. Change it!"

Far too many people sit and hope for change at some future date. Stop sitting and waiting, get up and do something to change the world. That is what we are trying to do here, and you said it well. We need to stay focused on that and spread the wave for all to enjoy. We are all connected, not only with each other and all life on this planet, but the infinite space in which we reside as well. Energy is the key of this connection, and I often can feel the energy within your posts. You said you "tend to function randomly, unless guided" but that can be a good thing. Freedom is somewhat chaotic on the individual level, but on the large scale that chaos looks organised. Much like the wave structure of the universe itself.

You wrote so much in the last few posts I could go on for some time, but I will spare you my infamous long posts.

Just wanted to say hello and let you know that I was glad to hear from you again. Now back to my dry scientific research.

Take care
Little Feather
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galaxy*19



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Clouds

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Aireal. It is really nice to be back, I will try and get more involved in the posts again. Looks like everyone has been busy for sure.
It is very nice to be a part of a community on a higher level of thinking, as i dont find too many people like that in my own age group.
However, I do have a close friend who i know would love this forum, but she's not very computer-ly inclined. I pointed her to the site, but she doesn't understand all the ins and outs of forum posting Razz
However, she may very well become my roommate in a few months, so perhaps then i can get her more familiar.

In the meantime, keep up the good work. It's been a pleasure reading all of your posts.

Thanks,
Galaxy*19
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Steve Anthony



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Helsinki

PostPosted: Wed Nov 22, 2006 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread!

These are the fundamental questions that all people will have as they attempt to understand the implications regarding WSM.

The idea behind the Infinity thread was to highlight what must be; what we can now necessarily deduce/rule out, based upon the updated findings of WSM theory.

Northjetty, you mention the 'duality' (perceived, but not real?), and maybe our deepest possible understanding of this is the dual aspect of Infinite/finite Space itself, as two 'halves' of the One Same thing. Indeed, why would it not be, if we are it, and 'it' is also 'us'?

To this end, when I first came here, I posted some rough, and pretty loose paragraphs about 'Big Truth/ little truth', as I had come to certain realisations for myself, but had/have yet to solidify their meaning(s), even though I feel that this intuition was correct. Further learning and contemplating of the WSM implications still leaves me wanting to say "Both!" (I will revise/tidy this thread up some time soon!)...

http://www.physics-philosophy-metaphysics.com/forum/connectivity-c-g-jung-and-the-wsm-vt411.html

And so, I relate this to the proposition of 'Intelligent design' also. When an intelligence is evolved enough, it becomes capable of being its own 'designer'. It stops being the child, being mechanically told what to do, how, where, etc, and has to accept some responsibility for its actions. This, however, does not make us any less 'mechanical', but just more complicated, as we now have the addition of being able to 'intelligently design' our own progress/further evolution. In fact, this is really the point at which we become aware of such ability, but have been evolving it since our perceived 'departure/fall' from the rest of Nature. I believe this is 'where we are at', or are about to realise the same. In fact, understanding the WSM may even be the 'trigger' for this paradigm change; this acceptance of 'both' aspects of reality.

It slowly dawns on us that we can no longer consider ourselves separate from what we have previously called 'God/Tao/Space, etc'. And this causes the greatest upset for those who previously considered themselves to be knowing, and in opposition of such thoughts. There can be no blame in this. We have simply been unaware, or in some kind of denial of this awareness. But does it not seem ironic that we may well have 'discovered' physical reality, just at the point when we desperately need to know it the most; as the planet is the most threatened we have known it?

All this can maybe leave us feeling a bit lonely(?), as the only 'known intelligence', but this is, perhaps, only because we have allowed ourselves the arrogance of believing that just the 'Human' view is relevant. We are by no means yet certain that other creatures are less aware of their 'Infinite connections' than we are. Indeed, as I have tried to point out on other forums, 'How 'intelligent' or 'civilised' does a species have to be, to destroy the only environment it knows how to exist in?'

Now seems like a good time to wake up and smell the Dynamic Unity of Reality!

~Steve~
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northjetty



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey steve, I hope that you are doing well. My question to Geoff about the overall cyclic happens was to clearify the duality between infinite space, and finite area therein. I think that you and I both, are seeing this in the same light. It isn't a duality. The finite is just a sphered off region of infinity. It has to have always existed along with infinite space. I agree with Geoff there, the metaphysics of the situation would show a finite area always existing, and the galaxies within, are changing form constantly. This is the life-death finite realm of infinity. The energies of life, are then directly connected to the perpetual energy of space/motion, and that which comes and goes, is the result of that constant motion. It roar's on.

Galaxy19, It's nice to see your beautiful face here this evening. You should encourage your friend to join the fun around here as well. There's a lack of female presence around here. We need to balance out this male dominated forum. (sausage fest, ha ha ha ) Seriously though, you are one well thought out women. I love hearing your take on these issues. Somehow or another, I believe we are about to change as a planet. We're discovering so many misconceptions nowadays that we can rule out alot of wrong idea's that we have held in the past. I agree, it's no one's fault, we've just been evolving. No one to blame for it really, just an acceptance that the falsehoods are not correct, and a moving forward from there. We were wrong about alot of things, fallen natures and discrete particles, are the two prime examples.

northjetty/the cosmos
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karene
Site Admin


Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 78
Location: Western Australia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 4:55 am    Post subject: Women, Sex, Truth Reply with quote

Hi everyone,

There are women here! Hi Galaxy. It is nice to see a thinking woman here. I will try to contribute more too.

I have sussed you out Northjetty. You are obviously here at the forum to pick up chicks!

One thing I have noticed from my studies of Human Sexuality & the Internet is that people are infinitely more interested in sex than truth.

Is this where we are heading?

Karene
p.s. just joking around Razz
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northjetty



Joined: 18 Jun 2006
Posts: 302
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wait just a darn minute here, Is sex not truth? Or is it not true that you two lovely ladies are very attractive and intellegent? I'm a truth seeker, thus I must confess to the truth as it reveals itself to me. The truth is, you girls are great!

This is about intellegent design so I'll gravitate back to that. Space, can be very beautiful. Rob was drawing an analogy involving a beautiful woman and it struck me that every beautiful women that I see, is space, incarnate as this wonderful form/image that is DESIGNED so well. A work of art really. Space and it's nessesary motion manages to DESIGN these beautiful works of art. So Space is an artist as well.

The pressing sense of rejoining, being the reason for the attractiveness. Space is moving and combining things as Rob has pointed out. I do realize that my yearning to kiss and love on a beautifully designed woman is that of self attraction by the properties of space. Is this evidence of DESIGN? I think it is.

northjetty/the cosmos
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galaxy*19



Joined: 07 Mar 2006
Posts: 42
Location: Clouds

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 5:11 pm    Post subject: rise of the feminine Reply with quote

And not only is sex truth and the truth that we probably ARE more interested in sex than truth, but it is also a fact that has been revealed to me by others and something I've managed to pick up on occurring -- and that's the rise of teh feminine. For over 2000 years this world has been male-dominated. Men have run the governments and controlled the progress of Science. Not since anyone can remember have women run the show. And I believe this is part of this big shift that we as a planet are going through. OUr own Mother Earth is awakening, 'cause she is a living being as well.

The balance must be re-established. And the feminine energies must become stronger to balance out all the testosterone. Dont be afriad men, because women are not going to dominate the world in the same fashion that men have. (And not to talk down to men, because not all of them have horribly oppressed women.) The feminine energies are those of nuturing, growth and unity. No bond stronger than between a mother and her child. Our mother EArth gave birth to us, and therefore her bond with us is strong. But we must return to our true nature's to really realize the impact of this.

The Earth has been sending me psychic messages for some time now. I get into a somewhat trancelike state and I can't help but feel her pain. For too long now we have been taking and taking and hurting her. It's time the tables turn and we nurture her so she can continue to support us.

Just as the microcasm's recapitulate the macrocosms, so does our own relationships withour own mothers, and our relationship with the mother Earth reflect our relationship to our own lives, and to the lives and LIFE on the planet.

And if we do not change our ways and come to nuture our Earth, so will the people of earth know the wrath of an angry Mother.

I believe she has already invoked this wrath with the hurricanes and typhons that have destroyed much. It is not just an issue of anger for our mother earth, it is an issue of survival.

Thank you very much for you appreciation of women in this community. It is important that women all around the world regain their confidence AND power that has been too long repressed. It is sad but true that it is still a serious (and seriously denied) issue that women are still so damaged and repressed around the world. I think in recent years we've been trying to help starving and under-privaledged children, but women need some lifting of burdens as well.

Much love and light to you all,
Peace,
Galaxy*19
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Steve Anthony



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Helsinki

PostPosted: Thu Nov 23, 2006 10:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

northjetty wrote:
Hey steve, I hope that you are doing well. My question to Geoff about the overall cyclic happens was to clarify the duality between infinite space, and a finite area therein. I think that you and I both, are seeing this in the same light. It isn't a duality. The finite is just a sphered off region of infinity. It has to have always existed along with infinite space. I agree with Geoff there, the metaphysics of the situation would show a finite area always existing, and the galaxies within, are changing form constantly. This is the life-death finite realm of infinity. The energies of life, are then directly connected to the perpetual energy of space/motion, and that which comes and goes, is the result of that constant motion. It roar's on.

northjetty/the cosmos



Hi Northjetty,

Slowly coping, thank you my friend. Your encouraging words helped immensely! - Actually, it's sometimes good to come along and twist the thoughts in another direction, as strangely, they often come full-circle, and join...somewhere right about... here!

Yes, I think we can agree, although it is my personal belief that we all have a unique perception, our very personal connection, which ultimately prevents any two aspects of Space ever seeing exactly the same thing, or 'time'. Indeed, this would be the very thing that makes it Infinite, thus Eternal. I remain open as to the things I cannot know or yet learn for myself, as this, hopefully, leaves space for truth, wherever and whenever it chooses to reveal itself to me. I bring very little form of learned (scientific, nor religious) 'indoctrination' with me to this WSM theory/understanding. It is quite true also, that I may be some way behind with this aspect of my reasoning, however.

One of the ideas postulated is the occurence of 'multiple universes', and this makes logical sense, in an 'Infinite Space', although sometimes I do wonder if this Universe is not one of perpetual/Eternal change, and will therefore experience an infinite number of possible changes, just within its own sphere? This would mean that an 'Intelligent Infinite Space' would have no reason to create 'other' universes, as everything Infinitely/Eternally possible would occur right here, in the One Universe. Always has done, always will do. This does not mean that I reject a 'multiverse' scenario, but simply have to conceed that both possibilities are just that. This is something that it may never be possible to 'know' (scientifically), but may be possible to deduce at some point.

Or, Geoff, can we now emphatically deduce a 'multiverse', necessarily? And might this not imply a more 'random' action at source?

For me, this would mean that everything is happening at the same time, somewhere in a 'Universe' within Infinite Space, and thus no 'reason' for 'Intelligent finiteness' as everything would already have been experienced, and continue to be experienced over and over again, eternally. But again, we are in the realm of speculation here. 'Movement' would be the necessity of experience, or the 'reason' for such actions as 'evolution', for example. Eternal movement would then represent Space experiencing itself continuously, and in an Infinite number forms, but not necessarily in more than one universe; simply, that the greater influence of Space is Infinite.

I am assuming in all this that 'intelligence' implies 'reason'. Is this necessarily so?

Looking 'back' 13.7bn years makes no sense at all to me, and I don't think it will be long before the 'science community' revises its ideas, again! This is just the latest estimate of 'now', but based on wrong/misleading information. That would make this finite sphere an incredibly small place indeed, when compared to Infinite Space. Much like comparing 13.7bn years to Eternity - Not even mathematically possible.

So, still plenty of mystery. Shocked



Karene and Galaxy,

Hi! It is indeed nice to see the other half of this Human existence manifested! Smile

How about a wave structure of femininity page/thread? Maybe, in time, I can get my wife to comment! (Can't promise much at the moment though.)

( http://www.yoni.com/ )

Best to all,

~Steve~


P.S. Ugly men are Space too!! Wink
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haselhurst
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Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 728
Location: Planet Earth, Milky Way, Universe, Infinite Space. Status: Endangered Species. Cause: Ignorance

PostPosted: Fri Nov 24, 2006 1:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi All,

Great link to the Yoni page. Karene will appreciate it (it is a word that is used in the Kama Sutra).

Karene is reading Germaine Greer at the moment - there is an essay in book titled "Lady Love your Cunt_" (The Madwoman's Underclothes, Essays 1968 - 1985)

It is interesting that many swear words are founded on genitals / sex. I suspect this is because they have the most powerful emotional content due to the central aspect of sex for our species survival.
(Our forum seems to have filters that block the 'c' word - thus the added underscore at end of word in above quote!)

Yes, we should put up a page on feminism, sexuality and the wave structure of matter. Karene is away this morning (at Yoga) so I will ask her to post something over weekend.

In terms of beauty, well I am average looking and a bit weathered, but one nice thing about philosophy is that it makes us realise the beauty of truth, that when we embrace truth within us, we become more beautiful.
I like that a lot!
Cheers,
Geoff

PS - We have gotten off subject a bit in this post on Intelligent design.
In terms of WSM, I think the intelligence comes from the complex interconnection of all matter in finite spherical universe (as part of infinite space). That each wave center 'particle' has knowledge of all other matter around it in its universe (about 10^80 'particles'), that leads to very complex evolution.
Give the system billions of years and you end up with beautiful women - but then beauty is in the eye of the beholder (a representation of the mind).
"Beauty is no quality in things themselves. It exists merely in the mind which contemplates them." (David Hume)

It is also interesting that what males find beautiful / sexually arousing, is actually a selective force on the evolution of females. e.g. It is speculated that a women's breasts protrude as it is similar to the curve of a women's buttocks when viewed from behind (our original sex position before we evolved face to face sexual contact).
This will be also true for male evolution as well - and it just shows this complex ecology of evolution.

I do think though, that in terms of power, men have greater physical strength and are more brutal - but women have the ultimate power of bearing offspring. So I think the sexual power of women should not be understated, nor should it be seen in a negative light. It should be understood and used wisely - that feminism should be largely founded on evolution and ecology - thus include man, child, nature, society and cosmos.

(Will move some of the above into our proposed 'feminism, sexuality and the wave structure of matter' post later.)
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