does anyone wonder why we are here?

[philozoi]

I often wonder, or to put it more accurately, i spend a lot of my time thinking about why we are here. Its not meaning i'm after, i feel i've got that already, what i'm concerned with is could there be a purpose to the universe. What follows is a gross simplification but bear with me, the big bang "made" the universe, right, the universe made stars, the stars planets, one planet, at least, made life, life produced animals, animals to humans, communication to language, language to ideas, ideas to machines, machines computers, computers to nanotechnology, but where to next? Each is a product of the next, just as one idea leads to another. It think was Carl Sagan who said we are the way for the Cosmos to know itself, but what would the purpose of that desire be, the desire to understand and find out and analyze every single god damned thing in minute detail? We and the technology around us are not the end result of this desire but merely products of it, both wasted and used to make the next step possible. The technologies that are ahead of us surpass anything/everything that has been experienced by anything that went before us, the ability to control the impossibly minute and compute the truly massive. The way this proceeds is neither linear nor slow and clumsy. According to Moore's law we will have by 2020 a computer with the same raw computational power as a human brain. The next year it will be twice as smart and every year after it exponentially increasing as, indeed, it already does. I personally believe that it will be faster than that. Another form of computing, the quantum computer has come quietly on the scene recently with simply unbelievable potential power. A computer of this fashion made of only one thousand atom's, a dot far too tiny to see, would be able to process, simultaneously, 10 to the power of 301 bits of information, thats more bits of information than there are particles in the entire universe. Add one more atom and that ability increases super-exponentially! No-one knows where this computing could possibly be going on. Never did mystics and alchemists have such flighty claims as these! Ha! I believe that we are here as a step on the way in the creation/self organization, whatever you want to call it, of a super-intelligence far exceeding what we could even possibly imagine. I will leave my explanation for that particular mad statement to another day as i am a hungry man and work finished half an hour ago. So long, bright and fair minds. Oil tock chew all soon.

[Steve Anthony]

Hi philozoi,

Welcome to space+motion.

Please take the time to read up a little on the wave structure of matter, and recent posts by our little group. I'm sure you'll find it all very illuminating!

http://www.spaceandmotion.com/Most-Simple-Scientific-Theory-Reality.htm

All the questions you ask are attempting to be answered here, but it does take time to let new knowledge settle in.

The WSM predicts no 'big-bang', that Space is Infinite, thus eternal.


Sorry this is a short intro, but i'm sure there will be a few others along shortly. Follow the links from the above one...

All the best,
Steve.

[philozoi]

Compelling argument, truly great stuff. But, if i may, I've got a few questions and i'd really appreciate it if you could give me your view on them. Firstly, is there any real difference between Time and Motion? The only difference i can think of is that Time is the rate at which we experience Motion. I was hit by a car once when i was on my bike and i remember vividly rolling over the bonnet of the car, everything went black and white, and i remember looking and seeing a woman sitting on the bridge across the way, slowly, slowly raising her hands to her face and somehow i had the presence of mind to shout, "I'm fine!" reassuringly, whilst flying through the air. The whole incident could not have taken more than a second and yet i experienced it as if it were, well, a few seconds. I read about something similar a few years later about crash situations and what the brain does in them. The black and white phenomena is result of the re-direction of the brain's processing power into the region of spatial awareness and the remarkable split-second decision that color is unnecessary, something like the safe mode of a computer, is made to maximize the designation of brain power to this region. Time is experienced as passing, in these circumstances, relatively slowly. And this is due only to the information being processed faster. I sometimes wonder how much more slowly it could go.
I like the idea of a Oneness, indeed i feel it, but i believe the fracturing, categorizing, classifying of it, was and is an attempt to facilitate the ease by which the human mind can "know" its Universe, to make a model of our experience, our experience itself already a model of the greater Universe, pictures of pictures, tragically ending up in mutual disagreement and untruths. It is for this reason i value the scientific method and i am concerned that some of your argument flies in the face of conventional scientific wisdom, primarily that of the big bang theory. I would love to see what the alternative idea is in some detail and to see if it is consistent with certain facts. I'm sure you are aware of the Thomas Henry Huxley quote, “Science is organized common sense where many a beautiful theory was killed by an ugly fact.” I sincerely hope that this is not the case with this fine theory. Kind regards.

[philozoi]

I've been reading about what this site has to say about the big bang. Stunning stuff. I must say that previously i have only been exposed to the other side of the argument. I generally dont believe anything that doesn't make sense to me, such as string theory, m-theory and the wonderfully named p-branes, the many worlds interpretation of quantum physics, ad nauseum and i am glad to have found something that doesn't...expound infinitely on deeply unsatisfying answers. Well done guys and gals, good to see it.

[haselhurst]

Hi philozoi,
Welcome to our little forum. You seem to be sensible and curious (nice rare mix!) so hopefully you will find the wave structure of matter makes much more sense than the current 'particle' physics.

Why are we here? From WSM we must conclude that space and its wave motions have a natural tendency to evolve into more and more complex wave patterns. Eventually you get replicating patterns which then leads to Darwinian evolution.
So our purpose in life is for our offspring to survive and reproduce, which requires that we survive and reproduce.
I don't see any other reasons. Space (and its wave motions) simply exists, infinite and eternal. Thus it has no reason (cause).

Any further purpose and meaning in life must come from us, as a human construction of our mind and emotions.

And given that we are currently destroying life on earth there is no shortage of purpose in life now - to save the planet as a way of ensuring our children (and their children etc.) survive.

Yes, time is really caused by motion, as the wave motion of space - as you say it is a relative measure of motion / rate of change.

And I agree, human evolution of intelligence is quite limited. The evolution of our machines is clearly much faster and does not stop / regress. So it is quite reasonable to assume that in the future we will have machines that a far more intelligent than us, far more powerful.
Though this depends on humanity surviving on this planet which is now problematic as I see things.

Please be patient - new knowledge filters slowly into the mind. And WSM is still in its infancy, needs a lot of good quality work from nice smart people - hope you will find it useful over time and help contribute to its further development.

All the best,
Geoff

[nisarga]

Hi philozoi,

The self-evident fact that the purpose of things is not fixed reveals that its essence is Motion~Space (time is the description of Motion - the symbol that represents the fact).

The meaning of the living uni-verse is not fixed and yet it is not lacking. This reveals not its Purposelessness but its Purposefreeness.

May Flowers Grow Around You,
James

[haselhurst]

Very nicely stated James.
Yes, the future is not fixed, there are many possibilities we can create / cultivate. I think creativity is very very important to humanity, and one creative act is to create purpose in your life by being creative in how you think and live, how you influence the world around you.
Truth is clearly also very important in this creative act.

Akasa Prana
Geoff

[philozoi]

I think it would be more accurate of me to say that there is a pointed tendency toward increasing complexity rather than say that there is a "purpose" to Everything, given that the former requires only thought and the observation of current and past events whilst the latter requires additionally, future projections that may be construed as mere speculation. But equally it incorrect to say that it has no purpose, or that there is no purpose, given that it is exceedingly difficult to be aware of ones role in the great scheme{if there is one!} when looking from the inside and fatally considering the brevity and apparent futility of one's life, but, when one tries to look at things less,..anthropocentrically and egocentrically an answer presents itself and the extreme subtlety of ones existence as a part of a greater existence can truly be appreciated. And that greater existence has this tendency. To say that this "purpose" has not been achieved is indeed true but to say it never will is to be confined to speculation once more. A microbe that finds itself in the raindrop of a cloud would be correct to conclude that his raindrop will never hit the ground.
I thank you for your thoughtfulness and time in responding to my posts and i hope that it will continue. May you all live to be a thousand!

[StupFly]

Hello philozoi, all..

The following post is my overall point of view on your questioning about 'purpose' and 'tendency' in this Universe which we are made of.

These words are made up by us humans and i think they can cause many problems. For instance - what is the purpose of a mug?
One could come up with many purposes - Drinking out of, or, mixing paints, or, throwing at someone your not happy with. The purpose is different dependent on the situation one uses the mug in. And the same applies to the purpose of a human being. We all have a different purpose.

Although we have the perception that we have the ability to move our bodies how we please and to think how we please - if the same law of natural change is applied to us as it is applied to a grass seed, we can never do or be anything else apart from what nature's 'intention' is for us. I use the word 'intention' as the intention of a acorn is one day an acorn tree.

One may think the wrong desision has been made - but it could'nt be any other way. Yes, there are often more than one option or choice but only one will be chosen to function in reality.. From the small changes you dont even see, to the universal changes - no thing is any other way than what its ment to be... If you disagree, ask yourself, when does any change stop becomming a natural occurance? if everything involved in that thing is a natural wave structure and motion of space.. Who is in a postion to say the events that unfold are not ment to be, be it a brutal murder or rape of a child, these are natural occurances of time and form.. But it is also our nature as humans to disapprove of such actions and therfore finding solutions to them.

Motion stops for no human to make decisions. The perception of choice is an illusion i think, to make up a possibility for the future is worthless if it is not realised. As to dwell on what could of been is a pointless strife.

We all have something in-store, a role to play, path to walk or wave change to be in motion with. Just as the growing motion of a tree spreads its branchs in a certain direction, we all walk a certain road, a road we can never leave, as the tree sits in its place, it cant be any other way.

[northjetty]

The key word here is UNDETERMINED UNIVERSE. The wsm paints the picture of an undetermined universe according to Haselhurst. If undetermined, then the term 'limited freewill' applies to the act of evolutionary change within the undetermined spherical finite universe. The limited freewill that we experience extends from the undetermined aspect of the universe as a whole. Now we can self intend our own destiny for sure! But we have the limited free will to self intend it with, from what I've gathered so far. We can intend a positive, or negative life with our own limited free will.

north jetty/the cosmos

[nisarga]

Hi Folks,

I see the Free Will vs PreDestiny wave arising.

Another example of the wave is: You are free to choose, once you have chosen you have no choice.

In this way the wave includes all possibilities.

~Waving~
James

[Steve Anthony]