Compact Star Cores

[Harry Costas]

Hello All

I want to know, what WSM explains the formations of compact star cores (ultra dense degenerated matter)

Still reading through the theory of WSM.

[Aireal]

Hi Harry

How you been doing? I have been having computer problems of late and have not been able to get online much.

Your question ties in with my current research into Nucleons, energy density, and has a lot to do with Milo's M.A.P or Minimum Amplitude Principle. This is also the point that cause Milo to doubt if black holes were possible under his work. That question has yet to be answered.

By the M.A.P., the exact center of a standing wave will not combine with another. Thus he belives this is the bases for Pauli's Exclusion Principle. However as this center is but a mear point in space, in a highly dence region, a vast number of these points can exist in close proximity. This implies that black holes are not themsleves a singlarity, though they can be treated that way mathamaticly. Instead they have a finite size based on their mass, even if this finite size is less than the size of an atom.

Compact star cores are no differant than any other object with mass in the universe. Mach's equations are indespensible here. They show that as the mass of a system increases, the distance of orbits of particles will decrease. When the energy density is high enough, electrons will start to act like quarks in that they become point particles dependent on the out waves of other matter, allowing the size reduction of the atom to continue.

It would take an entire scitific paper to address this topic with the detail it desearves. However my current work load does not allow me the time needed for this task. I hope I have been of some help to you. If you have any specific questions about this matter, I will do my best to answer them.

Till we speak again, best reguards,
Charles

[Harry Costas]

Hello Aerial

We know that protons and neutrons are made from quarks and quarks made from the theoretical preon particals.

We also know that quarks stars may exist.

Star cores

Neutron star core,,,,,,,,,,,,,neutrons can comapct much more than protons because of the neutral charge giving as a density of 10^15 or so. Compared to protons 10^5.

Neutron core compared to our sun mass is about 10Kms diameter

Quark composites compact to 10^22 or so. 3 M dia compared to our sun

Preon particals upto 10^35. 400 mm dia to our sun mass.

The forces that are need to create such compact cores are huge and its these forces that prevent light from escaping, thus creating the event horizin a distnce proportional to the mass.

As for black holes, being a well formation of a singularity, thats movie stuff.

[Aireal]

Harry

Then it sounds like W.S.M. is in agreement with observations and current models.

Mach's equations show that the distance between wave centers will decrease as mass increases, resulting in small cores.

The Minimum Amplitude principle prevents them from merging into a singularity.

The Preon particle is something I am addressing in my current work. W.S.M. has no current opinion on its existence.

Charles

[haselhurst]

"We know that protons and neutrons are made from quarks and quarks made from the theoretical preon particals."

Do we?

Milo Wolff explains 'quarks' as a common term that appears in their maths equations. Obviously WSM rejects 'particles' so there are no 'quarks'. It must be some form of wave pattern / frequency.

It seems reasonable that matter can form into very dense wave structures that do not emit light (no bound electrons in atoms / molecules to resonate).
But there are no singularities like modern physics suggests, they are theoretical constructs, not real things.

Geoff

PS Mike Harney has a good article that relates to this.
http://www.signaldisplay.com/Unified_Field_Theory.pdf

[Harry Costas]

Hello All

Hi! haselhurst,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,with a smile.


If there are no particals than where does the wave centre come from.

Where does mass come from?

How do Neutron stars form?

How do quarks stars form?

How do ultra dense matter form to create an object that prevents light from escaping. Some call this object a black hole. Not the movie well one.

[Aireal]

Hi Harry

Don't let the terminology we use here confuse you. In W.S.M. we try to avoid the use of the word particle. Why?, because we feel that the connotations attached to the word particle has leas many physicists down the wrong track. Here is how we define it, by the terms used by Q.M.

The "Real" particles of 1/2 spin are standing wave centers. All other "Virtual" particle are just that, virtual. They are not standing wave centers themselves. They are groups of standing wave centers like the nucleons, or just wave interactions like gluons.

This approach eliminated the need for the esoteric maths used by Q.M. because wave mechanics introduces its own quantumization. Energy is delivered in discrete packets of wave energy, simplifying calculations.

Thus W.S.M. does not make a lot of great new bold predictions that differ from current models, rather it makes slight adjustments to current models.

So do not let our aversion to the term particle mislead you. The standing wave center and particles of 1/2 spin are the same, just treated differently.

As Milo's work was based on C.E.D. theory, our predictions of nuclear processes does not really differ much from current models. I have not reviewed all the work concerning star core formation, but I would not expect W.S.M. to make no more than minor adjustments to them. Until I learn more about star core formation, I can only guess.

Charles

[Harry Costas]

Hello All

Hello aireal

I understand what you say.

Ok, if the name quark does not exist, what do you call the parts that make up a proton and a neutron.


Take it one staep further what do you call the parts that make up a quark.

So that I can use that logic in compact star cores.

[haselhurst]

Hi all,

I think you will find that everything (matter) is made out of wave centers (positrons and electrons, which are just opposite phase spherical standing waves).

A proton has one extra positron to electron.

A neutron has equal number of positrons and electrons.

Then in high density space the wave velocity is very slow, so the wavelength is very short, thus dimension is highly compressed.

We still have lots to learn, and it all needs mathematical calculation. But all in all we are talking spherical standing waves and their wave centers, and perhaps further wave patterns forming within the wave center for heavier 'particles' (as Milo Wolff thinks).

But no quarks!

Hope this helps.
Geoff

[Harry Costas]

Hello Haselhurst

Slowly slowly I can understand.

When we talk about compact cores, what would be the maximum compaction? The density that would prevent electromagnetic radiation from escaping.

I'm having problems with my comp,,,,,,,,,,,that is why I'm so slowwww.

Darn thing keeps clicking off.

[Harry Costas]

Hello aireal

You said

[Aireal]

Hi Harry

The Minimum Amplitude Principle ties in with what Geoff was saying. The exact center of a standing wave center is where all the action takes place at. This point where the IN wave becomes the OUT wave can not share its location in space with another wave center. Thus the region of space used by the standing wave may be shared with others, or even be totally within another standing wave, so long as the center points do not overlap.

For dense star cores, the gravity and density of space provide the force to move standing wave centers closer, but it does not look like a massive singularity could ever happen, but massively dense objects can arise.

As for how small can it go, the maximum compaction? The center of a standing wave is a point in space so small, it could be considered a natural singularity itself. How many singularities can you fit on the head of a pin? I do not know, and the number would be vast to say the least. Dense enough to account for anything we have observed so far.

As for the parts that make up nucleons, I have been doing work on that also. At this point in time I am using Milo's equations and treating all 1/2 spin particles as harmonics of the electron wavelength. Thus all the quarks and preon particles can be treated as harmonics of a single wave form. As Milo's equations are based on C.E.D. the interaction of all these wave centers can then be addressed without any modification to his equations.

Also, if you are currently doing work on the nucleons, I would like to see it if you have a link for it.

Well I am starting to ramble, till we speak again.

Charles

[Harry Costas]

Hello Aireal

Thank you for your time.

Like I said step by step.

Next question

Fusion and fission. How can they be explained.

================================

What you and haselhurst have said is understandable?
Sounds logical.

[Aireal]

Hi Harry

A little more detail on M.A.Principle is needed.

Excluding any outside forces like gravity and electromagnetism, standing wave centers will tend to space themselves within the region of space they have. This is best seen in sound waves where there are less outside forces. Only a given number of standing waves will exist within a wave guide of a given size. This is easy to calculate, organ makers have been doing it for a long time. Some other force is then needed to bring these closer together than they would like.

The preferred location for a standing wave center is at a node of the wave form where energy lost and energy gained by wave action are the same. This is seen in my post on Bohr's atom model. A careful reading of that post will disclose that the nucleus of the atom has a finite region of space defined by the anti-node loops of the electrons wave form in its orbit. Besides affecting fission and fusion, this is also a factor in radioactive decay. A nucleus that grows larger than this space, would not be as stable of an atom, and tend to decay down to this size. I assume the iron atoms nucleus is at this point, but have not done the math to confirm that.

Fission; An atom has a large amount of energy that is used just to maintain itself. When electrons move to a lower orbit, some of this is released as photons. The nucleus also has a binding force associated with it, as do the nucleons themselves. When an atom is split, some of this energy is released, just like in current models as E=MC^2 still applies, W.S.M. does not doubt this famous equation. In fact the source of it almost leaps out at you when you picture the In and Out waves within the standing wave center, each of them moving at the speed a light back and forth, a perfect picture of force contained.

Fusion; Atoms will fuse under the right conditions, the smaller the atom, the easier this will be. Gravity and heat provide this in a sun. Mach's equation shows us that as the mass of the atom increases, this will affect the orbits of the electron. This is why atoms do not vary much in size as mass increases. This means that when atoms combine, there will be an overall savings in the energy needed by the electrons to maintain their obits. This energy is released as photons. The nucleus also has an energy surplus with this new configuration, hence the other forms of radiation emitted by a sun.

Well this post is getting kind of long, so I will quit for now.

Charles

[Harry Costas]

Hello Aireal

This is quite interesting. Give me more. Please as Oliver would say.

Can we relate this to quarks or preon particals.

[Aireal]

Hello Harry

Milo used Mach's equations to show that there was one basic wave amplitude generated by the universe as a quantum fluctuation. Which lead me to the natural question, if there is only one basic wave amplitude, where do the other 1/2 spin particles come from. The only solution using Milo's equations was to assume that the wave amplitude was changed somehow. The max speed of light also played a role in this.

A dense region of space can slow down a spherical wave, reducing its amplitude. It would regain its former speed and amplitude upon reentering the less dense region. The max speed of light prevents the wave amplitude from growing larger than its original amplitude. Milo's equations showed me that these smaller amplitude waves would have a fractional charge value when compared to the electron/positron wave form.

As Milo based his work on CED theory, which was first used to model quarks, the rest was easy. The proton is 1/3 the size of the electron, but over a 1000 times denser. Perfect.

Using a harmonic wave model showed me that the 1/3 charge quarks would be a perfect fit for this model. However the 2/3 charge quarks would be too large, unless they were made up of smaller parts themselves. Thus the theoretical preon particle is needed to complete the picture with Milo's equations.

I am working on a paper for the toe-quest forum on this matter. It is not done yet, but if you would like to see what I have so far, I can PM you a copy of what I have written so far.

Charles

[Harry Costas]

Hello Aireal

I would love to read your work.

The more I talk to you the more I find that you are a smart cookie.

Can you also read the papers by prof Oliver manuel

Maybe you have read them.

http://www.omatumr.com/papers.html

The puzzel is all in parts right now. It may take a few more years.

I hope someone would work it out and save me time.

I will soon go into further depth with you Aireal.

Again thank you for your time and effort.

haselhurst has put so much time into this site. Fantastic work.

[Aireal]

Hi Harry

Thanks for the compliment. I am not the brightest bulb on the block, but I try to keep an open mind and learn as I go.

That is one of the reasons I enjoy your posts. You make me consider aspects of wave theory that I would never have explored otherwise. I was so focused on my current line of work, I never would have looked at fission, fusion, and star cores, if you had not raised the topic. These aspects must also be considered by any atomic theory at some point.

I have never read the work of Prof. Oliver Manuel. A look at the link you gave was most interesting. Several of his papers listed jumped out at me.

"On the cosmic nuclear cycle and the similarity of nuclei and stars", O.Manuel, Micheal Mozina and Hilton Ratcliffe, Journal of Fusion Energy (in press 2006)
Papers in PDF

I have noticed the similarity myself between nuclei and stars.

O.Manuel, M.Mozina and Ratcliffe, H., "The Nuclear Cycle that Powers the Stars: Fusion, Gravitational Collapse, and Dissociation" abstract of paper submitted for presentation at the Hirschegg 2006 Workshop on Astrophysics and Nuclear Structure, Hirschegg, Kleinwalsertal, Austria, 15 - 21 January 2006.
Abstract in PDF
Paper in PDF

Isotopes Tell Sun's Origin and Operation", abstract of paper to be presented at the First Crisis in Cosmology Conference in Moncao, Portugal, 23-25 June 2005.
Abstract in PDF
Conference Report in PDF
Manuscript in PDF

"The Sun Is A Magnetic Plasma Diffuser That Sorts Atoms By Mass", paper to be presented at the V INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE ON NON-ACCELERATOR NEW PHYSICS in Dubna, Russia, 20-25 June 2005
Overheads in PDF

The concept that the sun sorts atoms by mass would seem to mesh well with W.S.M.

O. Manuel, "The structure of the solar core", Proceedings of the Fourth International Conference on Beyond Standard Model Physics - BEYOND 2003 (IOP, Bristol, editor: H. V. Klapdor-Kleingrothaus) in press (2004).
Manuscript in PDF
O. K. Manuel, B. W. Ninham and S. E. Friberg, "Superfluidity in the solar interior: Implications for solar eruptions and climate", Journal of Fusion Energy 21, 193-198, 2003.
Manuscript in PDF
O. Manuel, "The standard solar model versus experimental observations", Proceedings of the Third International Conference on Beyond Standard Model Physics - BEYOND 2002 (IOP, Bristol, editor: H. V. Klapdor-Kleingrothaus) pp. 307-316 (2003).
Manuscript in PDF
O. Manuel, Cynthia Bolon and Max Zhong, "Nuclear systematics: III. The source of solar luminosity", J. Radioanal. Nucl. Chem. 252, 3-7 (2002).
Manuscript in PDF

The sourse of solar luminosity, we were just talking about this.

O. Manuel, C. Bolon, A. Katragada and M. Insall, "Attraction and repulsion of nucleons: Sources of stellar energy", J. Fusion Energy 19, 93-98 (2001).
Manuscript in PDF

Of note on the above paper, I have suspected that this, and believe it to be a vital clue to the nuclear mass deficit problem.

David Arnett, "Supernovae and Nucleosynthesis: An Investigation of the History of Matter from the Big Bang to the Present", Review: American Scientist 85, pp. 478-479 (1997).
Review in PDF

So it looks like I have some reading to do. Speaking of reading, I have sent you my paper via P.M. Yes I know it is long, and it is not done yet. Despite its leangth, I only put in what I thought was needed to support my point. There are a number of very educated people on the ToeQuest forum that can pick apart most papers. So I am writing for a ruff crowd, but still want it understandable for the average reader.

The paper is a selection of my posts on this forum grouped together in a logical manner, I hope. So there is little I have not said on this forum elsewhere, but will save readers endless links, which they will most likely not follow anyway.

You will note some links in it. I give credit where credit is due. Example; Some time back I had the idea that Mach's equations would be useful in describing the orbits of electrons in atoms of various mass. Just because I have an idea does not mean that I am the first to have it. A web search on the subject turned up a fine paper which I was glad to cite. Besides giving credit where credit is do, it saved me a lot of work.

Well I had better end this post, too long.

Charles

[Harry Costas]

Hello All

Hello Aireal you make me smile.

[Aireal]

Hi Harry

You have set yourself a great task. Since our last talk, I have been looking into work on stellar cores and found it to be a complex topic indeed. Many unknowns still exist also. A most interesting topic, I must read more about it. So much to learn, so little time.

Best Wishes

Charles

[Harry Costas]

Hello Aireal

Man has all the time.

One man has little time.

I'm still reading through the wave theory.

Trying to understand how compaction of matter occurs and what stages it go through.

What makes a neutron star compact even further?

Your explanation is helping me work it out.

[Harry Costas]

Hello

I get it.

Smile

Haselhurst said

[Bill Back]

Puzzles with infinite parts and no borders are hard to put together, because they are already together. We just don't see it most of the time.

[Harry Costas]

Hello Bill

You said