"When forced to summarize the general theory of relativity in one sentence: Time and space and gravitation have no separate existence from matter. ... Physical objects are not in space, but these objects are spatially extended ... thus the concept of particles cannot play a fundamental part, ... and can only appear as a limited region in space in which the field strength or energy density are particularly high."
(Albert Einstein, Metaphysics of Relativity, 1950)
"It is my firm belief that the last seven decades of the twentieth century will be characterized in history as the dark ages of theoretical physics. ... The quantum world is a world of waves, not particles."
(Carver Mead, Professor Emeritus at Caltech. Received $500,000 Lemelson-MIT Prize in 1999)
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haselhurst
Site Admin
Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Posts: 728
Location: Planet Earth, Milky Way, Universe, Infinite Space. Status: Endangered Species. Cause: Ignorance
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 Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: Can Humans Work Out Truth and Reality Themselves? |
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Can Humans Work Out Truth and Reality for Themselves
My previous reply, on a separate post (use google search of forum) was poor in terms of philosophy / use of language (perhaps psychologically interesting!).
The question obviously requires more clarification.
"How much knowledge about truth and reality does an individual require to then work out the rest for themselves - confirm the truth about reality?"
Given that Einstein had a lot of knowledge - and he did not work it out - you would have to conclude that pretty much all humans are incapable of working it out from the current 'particle / field' in space / time' physics.
However, if they were brought up with knowledge that space existed as a wave medium, then many would work out for themselves that matter must be a spherical standing wave in Space.
My point is that it depends on the individual and their knowledge foundations. In the current system the answer is very low - close to zero - a few exceptions.
So one of my obsessive thinking problems has been how to present this knowledge so that they can 'work it out for themselves'.
This is what I am trying to achieve with the simple science pages, and the website as a whole over time (as it is re-written).
And I guess my general message in all this (as a philosopher). We must always carefully analyse the language in a question, ensure it is precise, defined relative to reality (rather than imagination) and thus meaningful.
Any thoughts?
As always - sorry if it sounds abrupt / absolute / arrogant. Just me being busy.
Geoff
PS - There have been lots of good hints to help us for thousands of years - as you all now realise - which further confirms that we are not good at working out truth and reality even with good foundations of dynamic unity of reality that were well known. But all of you can now work this out for yourselves (WSM) and it seems obvious to you - why? Because we are blind to the obvious - but once someone shows us the correct path we can then continue along working things out, thinking and acting more wisely.
We just need to help the rest of humanity - which will happen - simple sensible truths conquer absurd myths over time! |
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Steve Anthony
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 346
Location: Helsinki
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Hi Geoff,
I would say that Humans have known the truth about reality for many thousands of years, if not an awful lot longer! Knowledge of Reality is not necessarily an understanding of it. We understood it better in the past, as we were more in contact with it.
Knowing it, is living IN it, but Humans are increasingly moving AWAY from reality, so that they need such as 'science' to maintain some kind of 'life-line' to what is Real.
People rarely seem to ask the truly important questions like: "Why isn't existence itself good enough for us?" or "Why do we insist on seeing 'problems' with what simply exists?" We seem to be so addicted to 'problems' that we believe 'problematic thinking' is in some way 'normal'. Yet, no other form of existence do we observe as having 'problems'. Even the poor Panda does not complain about its impending extinction! - Of course, this is because he simply doesn't know that he is making himself extinct! But, how is this different from Humans polluting the atmosphere?
We think we are so 'progressed' and 'civilised', and all the time we are no better than the Panda. Worse, in fact, as the Panda is not ruining everything for all the other species as well!
We 'Rule the World', and this is still not good enough; we now must 'conquer Space'! I am simply of the understanding that it would be more prudent to conquer the 'Space' between our ears, before spreading our particular brand of Anarchic 'order' into the rest of the Cosmos.
'Science' simply would not exist if it were not for intuition. We have to intrinsically know the truth about ourselves, and it must be an inherent quality that we re-connect with when our sciences do what they are designed to do, and clarify the Truth for us. Truth must already be there for us to recognise it when we are able to shelve our 'doubts'.
As you say...
| Quote: | | "How much knowledge about truth and reality does an individual require to then work out the rest for themselves - confirm the truth about reality?" |
..and the operative word is 'confirm'.
We only need physical 'proof' of Reality because of the wrong psychology of 'problematic thinking' that we have adopted. Hence the 'current system' is not geared to understanding much about Reality, in fact it can been clearly seen that it actually performs the opposite task, and anyone who stands out by looking at life in a Realistic way is labelled a 'Genius' (which is yet another form of separation), or previously this may also have been 'witch', 'heretic' or even 'anarchist'.
WSM will clarify what people will already know, but only once they are able to understand that they are not currently thinking clearly; that Reality is their birthright, not some 'fancy of the Geniuses' (or the 'mystics', the 'chosen few', or even their perceived opposites, the 'anarchists')! Are these people 'clever' or actually just very clear? Is it not strange that the 'learned' must go through this ritual of understanding all the things from the past, to then destroy all that understanding and come up with a new 'theory', based loosely on the old, and still wrong, assumptions? We call it 'adding to the tree of knowledge', but 'knowledge' and 'understanding' are two very different things. We fill our heads full of knowledge, from the past (passed) , but understand instantly, 'Now'.
If we take the questioning a step further and ask 'Why are we blind to the obvious?' it becomes a matter of psychology and environmental conditioning. People are wilfully blind when it comes to Truths that they feel will give them 'pain'. Take away the false sense of 'pain', which is really a fear of 'potential pain' (also 'loss'), and people will be once again willing to embrace Reality.
So, yes, we now have evolved a 'need' for science, but who cares what 'shape' reality takes when you believe yourself to be no longer part of it? - In this respect, the 'Dynamic Unity' is more important than all other aspects, as it is the understanding that will help us go forwards and give us further motivation to understand more of this Reality, while Humans still have one.
I don't think our views necessarily clash, but this is just my take on it. WSM remains a most important discovery, it cannot be denied. But it is how we react to these new levels of understanding that counts. It is a discovery of understanding that will clarify the 'problem' of mind, because that is where all 'problems' are, not in or with Reality itself. We just need to stop the fear of losing our old minds, as they are no great loss anyway, IMHO.
Steve |
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nisarga
Joined: 03 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Geoff,
The first step is the last step...
Humans can work out Truth and Reality for themselves through Right Understanding.
Since this is not happening for most folks now it is self-evident that presently Right Understanding is not what they are acting from.
In this light it is helpful to understand what the current understanding is and why it does not reveal Truth and Reality.
Currently the dominant approach is that folks seek Truth and Reality about themselves in the realm of knowledge and the primary instrument that they use in this investigation is the mind (Einstein and others with brilliant minds demonstrate that this approach is not effective).
So why doesn't the approach of Truth and Reality via knowledge and mental understanding reveal Truth and Reality?
Simple - Truth is Living!
Knowledge is always limited because no matter how much is known it can always be added to, doubled or tripled...etc...and knowledge is in the realm of the known - hence it is of the past and static; you and I cannot know NOW because it is a Living Wave!
Does this mean that the mind and knowledge have no role to play?
No - obviously your/my mind is being used to read the information in this message. Thus knowledge and the mind are used in practical functional ways, and, since it is an extraordinarily powerful instrument, it is very good at what it does and very useful - yet the doorway to Right Understanding is when the mind sees both its abilities and its limitations... thus its understands its role.
As stated above the mind does have a role to play; and its role is the role of science; this is one foundation pillar of the 'step' I mentioned at the beginning of this post (this is akin to your right leg/foot in walking) . The other foundation pillar (this is akin to your left leg/foot) is art and the instrument that is used is the Heart. This is the domain of the philosopher.
The wisdom of the heart is accessed when the mind is silent and there is the absence of any form of 'identification' as the I-entity (the mind and its content is still available yet not active - it is like an actor on a stage who's lines have been said, it is there yet silent until it's time to say the next line) .
The activity in this optic is intuition that compliments the intellectual activity of the mind. Here you 'feel' your way. All the practical information that has been accumulated via the activity of the mind is applied as appropriate to the situation and the new-now is welcomed as you allow your heart to be broken open.
In this way Right Understanding is a way of being that is based on Seeing. And what joins the foundation pillars of art and science and renders them not-two is the LIVING as SEEING.
The first step is the last step... yet like T. S. eliot says -
| Quote: | “We shall not cease from exploration
And the end of all our exploring
Will be to arrive where we started
And know the place for the first time.”
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The reason that the Wave Structure of Matter shows folks Truth and Reality about themselves is because it honours art and science as described above. The science is self-evident in the information of this site; the art is there in the philosophy; And the union of both is the LIVING WAVE.
Breathing~Space
James
ps - Right Understanding is like the living relationship of your body and mind; each has a role to play, yet the whole is the living understanding of how they compliment each other as extremes of the same thing. The intelligence of your mind is what is called intellect/thinking; the intelligence of your body is what is called intuition/feeling; the Living Union is Intelligence Itself that abides locally in/as your Heart and globally as Truth without boundary or border commonly known as Space. |
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Bill Fisher
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Hi Geoff, All,
THE ELVSIVE OBVIOUS
The practical application of the wave structure of matter to improve life and work has been my interest. How do you improve life and work without truth and reality?
Recently I was asked to help new start up company. What is fascinating, everything about this company has to do with the wave structure of matter? The product, business plan, sales and marketing materials, corporate culture and how people communicate.
The product changes the wave structure of matter to kill mold, viruses and bacteria. No chemicals added here. Here is one practical application. | Quote: | “H5N1 (Bird Flu) pandemic is forecast to cost the global economy up to $2 trillion of GDP, with a mortality rate of 70 million people worldwide”
(Source: ‘Global Development Finance’, World Bank, May 2, 2006). |
Experts say pandemic outbreak is not a question of “if” but “when”.
Managing wave structure can be a practical proactive way to deal with real problems such as bird flu on large scale. I also used the in / out wave management approach to design our brochures. The result has been impressive thus far.
This little company could become an interesting case study perhaps under Practical Applications / Practical Philosophy / Practical DUR 
Cheers, |
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Bill Back
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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Humans play, act out truth by living now. Working truth out seems difficult because it is less fun, but we can do it in our individual ways. We can show others what we find as truth, and it may lead them to find truth for themselves. Words and pictures are not truth. Truth is found in the Unity that we are.
Joe, Wave management could be used to reduce greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. It is interesting that man’s major natural predators(besides himself) are one celled microbes, kind of like David and Goliath. Is nature trying to balance itself out? Is fighting nature making our planet less sustainable? |
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Bill Fisher
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 32
Location: Calgary, Canada
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| Posted: Mon May 07, 2007 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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Bill,
Humans are an endangered species. Geologically speaking humans will inhabit earth for one very short blink. The planet and the wave structure of everything will just carry on. It’s sustainable, we’re not.
In the mean time, you have some choices to make. Let bird flu get you or beat bird flu to the punch. So do you use the wave structure of matter for practical purposes or do you let things such as bird flu and ignorance devastate you and your family?
Do you want learn how to use WSM to improve life and work or just talk about it?
Your choice
Cheers |
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Bill Back
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 6:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Let us use the waves! I would rather use waves than talk about them. You go Joe, lead, right on. I'm listening. |
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Bishadi
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 4
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:08 pm Post subject: |
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Hello to everyone … this is my first post here and happy to see kindness and compassion within this site.
This item I would like to discuss. If I speak in the 1st, well the Aristilian approach is the gift, I bumped into as a kid and to maintain the promise made, it is time to offer a bit of “UNDERSTANDING.”
| Quote: | | I would say that Humans have known the truth about reality for many thousands of years, if not an awful lot longer! |
Each generation of man has touched and contributed to that One set of knowledge …. To reach that final ‘evolution of knowledge’
| Quote: | | Knowledge of Reality is not necessarily an understanding of it. We understood it better in the past, as we were more in contact with it. |
In the past they acknowledged what truth they could describe and in a conscious realm of compassion, understood right and wrong but to describe at a level science could incorporate has been one of the shortfalls.
| Quote: | | Knowing it, is living IN it, but Humans are increasingly moving AWAY from reality, so that they need such as 'science' to maintain some kind of 'life-line' to what is Real. |
because even the wise, ‘knew’ to observe, still the same problem of descriptions are what leaves the children without true understanding.
The problem within the sciences and religions is the description of “Life.”
Neither has been able to complete that picture and why the differences are so vast. But the truth basis is written everywhere, throughout time and it is the sciences and use of proprietary that has stalled the forward progress. Without too much rambling, if Tesla would have been able to complete his ‘energy propagation’ the globe would have figured out what I did a long time ago. |
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Bill Back
Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 95
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Bishadi, Good Post.
How do we use the spherical waves of space the basic building block, the primal energy of the universe?
We can use the motion of space through thinking one system, by making choices from all points of view and then project our thought through space by feeling the unity, love and freedom. Space is free, and so are we.
Search: “vibration medicine“, or “science of mind” or just think and feel Absolute Good... |
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Bishadi
Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 4
Location: US
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| Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | How do we use the spherical waves of space the basic building block, the primal energy of the universe? |
Many description of that ‘energy’ need to be finished. The idea of a spherical waves (all directions) can be attributed to that idea of electromagnetic radiation propagating through space but space or distance (spacetime in my view) may need to be re-examined as ‘c’ (actually planck) is what gave us this constant, when entangled masses share that ‘c’ may not be a constant. Hence that ‘spooky action at a distance.’ Einstein…
| Quote: | | We can use the motion of space through thinking one system, by making choices from all points of view and then project our thought through space by feeling the unity, love and freedom. |
That unity is a real truth. Like gravity to all things in a sense yet the proof will come from the entangled energy upon mass. Rather then gravity being a force but a consequence of energy. Almost like breaking up an H atom; then will return, eventually. Yet each separate, indicates ‘energy’ or potential in today’s model.
| Quote: | | Search: “vibration medicine“, or “science of mind” or just think and feel Absolute Good... |
Being in quality thought is usually derived from being appreciative. Just happy to know you’re alive, in a sense. But ‘good’ itself is only of a conscious to distinguish; what else can?
The vibe is an emotion upon a present ‘individual.’ Whether good or bad but ‘yes,’ environment can assist in humble assimilation.
Sciences of the mind scare me….. since freud….. it’s been assimilated to the industry; it’s Mom’s fault. But the psychologist helps one identify how that environment coupled with accepted norms actually captured the reactions to surface before the compassionate conscious makes a choice.
The ‘fire is hot’ so to see the hand go into the fire often causes a reaction before ever feeling the heat.
So for us the ‘people’ to comprehend what reality is will prove to be subject to knowledge and the comprehension of ‘how it works.’ This will begin with an understanding of mass and energy coupled to the conscious understanding; grounding ‘how we exist’ or ‘life.’
In other words, for a person to comprehend what makes him/her alive will be the final chapter to physically understand what good and bad are as it is only of the conscious this becomes a question and neither the sciences nor religions have ever been able to do this.
All have touched it. Each are so close it is funny. Some even coined the terms and describe phenomena, yet that bridge has never been built. That evolution had not been reached.
But the ‘wheel of time’ has turned and each religion has written of that pinnacle and the sciences have measured most of the properties; that time is rising. |
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