Brainwashing

[Bill Fisher]

Hello,
Steve wrote: It is my belief that self-deception and denial are largely
the cause of our problems, and this seems to be just as true for us as a
species as it is individually (Being a species made up of individuals, after all!).

Is self-deception because people have received little training in how to manage complexity?
What causes self-deception?
Who is brainwashing your brain, you or some fat priest?
How do you know - really?

How can you efficiently sort through all the lies, scams and hype to find truth?
We are surrounded by fat priests, experts in brainwashing techniques who want your money and your mind.
How do 'normal intelligent' people become suicide bombers?
What might Joe Average learn about professional con artists and how to avoid their influence?

If happiness is knowing how to manage complexity, then either you learn how or some slick priest may move in?

Fat priests are experts in "behaviour-nomics," they want all of you, your mind and your money. Their technique looks more 'whole system' vs. reductionism - psychology, economics.

Fat priests come in all different shapes and disguises such as abusive partner, con artist, slick marketing and so called leaders who say: trust me. And please no questions.

Some fat priests claim two absolutes - absolute good and absolute evil. So the question begs: How can you have two absolutes? What kind of Governance does this provide and what kinds of problems does this create? This kind of thinking has huge affect on Joe Average.

Some religious leaders instruct their priests to be celibate. On the other hand, they instruct their flock to go forth and make out like rabbits. I think you know what problems this creates. In case you haven't looked lately, check the world population counter
http://www.ibiblio.org/lunarbin/worldpop

There are now more people on earth than rats, more than any other mammal.

How do you defend yourself from fat priests?
What space and motion models, maps and matrixes might help Joe Average?
I'm working on some ideas and looking for yours.
Cheers,
Bill

[Steve Anthony]

Hi Bill,

It is important for Joe to remember that he is his own 'fat priest', on occasions, as an outside 'fat priest' can only knock at the door; it also takes Joe (the unconscious, but equally sometimes 'fat' priest) to open it from the inside..

- "What causes self-deception?"

- Please bear in mind that I am no 'expert', but an observed opinion is that people are mostly trying to avoid internal fears; fear of the unknown being an evolved trait from way, way back. Fear eradicates trust, and trust is needed to learn. Therefore, fear and ignorance go hand in hand. However, this is, as you rightly point out, a complex issue. Over time, I would recommend that basic psychology be taught as part of the educational curriculum in all schools. A basic understanding of self would give everyone an opportunity of understanding who and what they really are, instead of following patterns layed down by previous generations who could only speculate. Now, due to the discovery of WSM, we are that bit closer to truth.

Pushing our 'evils' onto others (away from ourselves) does not rid us of them, as they come back to haunt us when the person we just pushed them onto pushes them back at us, plus the ones he doesn't want! - This is how whole nations (such as Germany in the last world war) can build such intense levels of hatred, over many years of fear and denial, that spill out into even greater violence. Humanity must learn these kind of lessons if it wishes to become 'global', or risk another world war (on 'terrorism'?) should it continue to deny its own 'evils'. The understanding that we live as part of a Dynamic Unity will hopefully go some way to alleviating this basic misunderstanding of 'evil'.

You will have to also consider that this is primarily a science-based forum, although I would personally like to see a 'psychology section' (no pun intended) that discusses how the WSM affects the way we think.

Maybe a 'politics of WSM' thread is also relevant, but at this point in time, I feel, it would be more prudent to spread the word of WSM as it currently is, and re-evaluate the political aspects as the necessary changes are realised, in time. I am of the opinion that we can either evolve a wiser, more sustainable 'politic', or suffer the consequences. History tells us that the alternative to listening to the majority of people is 'civil war'. In a 'global' scenario, this becomes a very unattractive thought indeed! - Does a 'civilised' society need to be kept in check by the threat of military violence? - I think not. I think we are not as 'civilised' as we like to boast.

Joe cannot fill his head with so much information and expect to digest it all overnight. His brother 'Steve Average' can attest to that...

Here's a few book recommendations; the best I can do for now...

Man and his symbols - by C.G. Jung, et al.
Beyond Violence - by J. Krishnamurti
Learning how to learn/Knowing how to know - both by Idries Shah

Also, many of Geoff's recommended readings, and philosophical quotes, would do Joe the world of good, in my opinion. But Joe has to accept an amount of responsibility also, has to be inquisitive enough and care enough to want to know the truth for himself.

Not grasping the 'Dynamic Unity of Reality' has been a collective self-deception, which only the occasional 'outsider' has had the inclination to transcend. Helped by political persuasion, no doubt, but we have to realise that we are also responsible for letting ourselves be persuaded, and that it is actually seen as beneficial sometimes, when we simply cannot face the responsibility.

This kind of talk puts peoples' backs up mostly, as we all like to think of ourselves as intelligent and capable of making sound judgements. However, this does not explain why we continue to pollute the only environment we have evolved to exist in, or elect those who seem unconscious/in denial of our greatest problems!

Joe will give himself great advantage, and hopefully be able to help other 'Joe's' do the same, if he studies this latest understanding of Reality, this WSM, and the truth that it represents...

Hope some of this helps, as I like to think of myself as being on Joe's 'side', and also that I'm not just deceiving myself (or him!). That's why I advocate as much Self-learning as possible. Then you can't blame me (or anyone else) when you refuse to learn!

~Steve~

[galaxy*19]

[Steve Anthony]

[northjetty]

Great post there steve! That was a great way of simplifying an enormous amount of information into a brief three part connection. We are in 3-D space, so that makes the simple 3 part connection even more intriguing. Space is a simple 3 part(dimensional)thing. This is the real "trinity" of space, and our minds, that are made of space, so if we think in terms of physics/philosophy/metaphysics we are at one with the 3-D cosmos? Is that the realization here?

northjetty/the cosmos

[Steve Anthony]

Hi NJ,

Stripped bare, we could say that In waves and Out waves combine to form what we call 'existence'. - A gross (and chilly!) simplification, but should be no less true for all subsequent 'parts' of such existence.

Two extremes (motions) of the same thing (Space) combine and produce a third ('evolution' of Space). We observe this everywhere, most predominantly in ourselves; man + woman = child.

The same thing must therefore also happen when we share ideas - Hence why Truth always, eventually, 'rises to the top', being the only 'motivator' of Space itself! - I think, in this regard, we are actually much more 'mechanical' than we like to believe/admit. This also gives us the illusion that 'someone/thing' must be more 'intelligent' than we are, but is actually just Space, doing what it has always done, attempting to become more aware of itself. This illusion of ego-inflated 'greatness' is us being our own 'worst enemy', IMO, and hence my comment to Joe, above...


These are the things I would think on, before finding this site, and now I have, it is just kind of clicking things into place, starting to seem kind of obvious. - Gradually, I might add, because I have no formal 'physics' training, neither 'religious' background, so I do get weighed down in their respective 'dogma's', trying to understand why people do the often completely 'insane' things they do. - Can't help that, being born into a society that knows little else! How much easier life would be (for everyone!) if we could let 'dogma' go, and just concentrate on what is real (also, by definition 'honest'!) - Maybe we can, now that reality is that bit clearer?

Drifting off topic again (or maybe not), but 'brains' and their consequential 'washing' must adhere to the same basic properties, if it is true of all things, no matter how complicated they become over time.


~§~

[northjetty]

Steve, sometimes I wish that I had never been raised in a brain washed christian dogmatic setting myself. It's funny how some people come onto this forum, and hear words like absolute truth, and then assume immediately that we have a running dogma here at the wsm. Or that this is some kind of brainwashing in itself, like these religions. The word truth, has been so tainted by misuse that it's difficult to come out with what is actually true. We have these religious dogmas to thank for that, combined with the post modern belief in no absolute truth. People want to believe that anyone can believe anything about reality, and its just as good as any other idea about reality. That's very similar to saying that anyone can walk out onto an NBA COURT and play basket ball. No one is better than anyone else, one shot is just as good as any other. The problem is that the ball has to go in, or it isn't worth as much as the other persons shot that did go in. Like wise, if a thought results in paradox and more theories, that get more complex to account for the paradox, that don't finish the theory, then that thought isn't equal to a thought that explains reality without paradox and by means of simplicity. So people get mad, when there shots don't make it through the hoop, and even more mad when someone else follows up with nothing but net(wsm). Some how false claims for truth must be exposed, while true claims for truth must be exposed as well. This isn't brain washing, its competitive thinking through ontology. People can weigh it out for themselves and see which theories are rim bangers and which theories are nothing but net.

northjetty/the cosmos

[Steve Anthony]

[haselhurst]

Great discussion you guys.
I feel very lucky to share this forum with you.
And I sense your emerging wisdom and strength of mind - that your minds are growing more compatible with truth over time.
Thanks (and good on you).
Geoff

[northjetty]

Steve once again, a terrific post on your part. We must be in the middle of a major learning experience, as you suggested. We are learning as we go along as a species for sure, so with this new physics there shall come a deeper level of understanding that can be applied to attempt to rectify the damage that we have caused thus far in this learning experience. This all makes perfect sense to me, especially in terms of a planetary evolution. These evolutions must be going on throughout space. I wonder if awareness grows beyond self destruction? The rise of awareness in matter has caused a damage to the planet through the act of striving to gain more knowledge and thus technology. The rise of technology is the real fault of the industrial revolution that has put us into the mass production of waste, and bi-product, and emissions. Not to mention stripping the planet of natural resources. It's a nice thought to have, seeing knowledge evolve from a childish destructive phase, into an adult conservation mode of balance. Knowledge itself is like a baby growing up, and it takes generations and generations for knowledge to mature along these lines of thought. Knowledge, through this view, is certainly reaching a new found level of maturity through the ground breaking discovery of the wsm. Adult hood is before us now, it is in sight. We are finally growing up and realizing reality as a species. I should hope that this will give our sciences the insight that is needed to reshape a modern world view that is based on the truth about existing space waves.

northjetty/the cosmos

[Steve Anthony]

Geoff, NJ, all,

Thank YOU all for providing and nourishing the platform!

I think team work is invaluable in bringing greater truths or awareness into our lives. So it's a bit frustrating when we fail to communicate our meanings to each other! I was thinking about this some more today. I tried to break down the processes involved in communicating, and came up with this...

The initial idea is formed, then it's meaning is transferred to a medium (language) that we believe to be the best medium for the task, and sent forth on its way. The medium (language) is then received by the second party, and deciphered into the understanding of the recipient, whereby it is then converted into new meaning, based upon previous experience of the second party. This produces ideas that are almost certainly far from those formed by the first party! A very complicated process, and i'm sure my feeble attempt to describe it is not entirely accurate!

All the more reason to thank you both for understanding!

But this is where the greatest of breakthroughs may actually be happening. With a description of physical reality that we can all agree on, our communications are 'honed in' on each others', and thus our respective thoughts gain greater clarity. Suddenly, things start to make sense. Previously, if 'God' could have been universally described so that none could disagree, its ambiguity would not cause the distress it has; but then, we would all now know that whatever we have previously tried to describe as 'God', is actually wave structured, and we are 'it'.

I think we can be aware of what we are, and still leave plenty of 'mystery' as to what else Space can be, or become aware of. 'Other' entities (parts of Space) have their own eternities in which to achieve self-awareness...

[northjetty]

Steve, one thing that I've honed in on is a metaphorical aspect of the biblical revelation, and it's reference to Babylon. Babylon the great, is a direct reference to the story of the confounding of langauge. The great confounding, or confusion. I have considered that this metaphors what we are talking about here. When babyon is fallen, we are dealing with a reference to the falling of confusion, and more specifically langauge, concerning our being able to agree upon anything as a species. When the confusion has fallen, and things become clear, then we are looking at a new world altogether. I do see a correspondence here between Babylon in metaphor, and Literal fundamentalism, and the problem of uncertainty in physics. With the proper langauge, which can be understood and agreed upon by all, a new world order is at hand for all of us. The arrival of this knowledge of the wsm has the potential to be agreed upon by all, thus a place where we can transcend disagreement as a species and see ourselves as one, and really live it, really know it. When the day comes that children learn that they themselves are the universe from the youngest of ages, there will be little confusion concerning self realization as a species. This would be the science, and this would be the religious aspects of the science. Every generation becoming more and more realized and focused on the reality of themselves as the existing space waves. Hopefully these will be the generations that figure out how to leave the planet and become space traveling or just achieve whatever ends intelligent life/space can obtain.


northjetty/the cosmos

[Steve Anthony]

Hi NJ,

I'd agree with that also!


The word 'confusion' comes from 'Confucius', who actually spoke an awful lot of Truth!

[galaxy*19]

Thanks everyone!
I must say that everything being said here not only jives with my intuition, but I have felt these things for a long time (the confounding of language most esp).
Wow! that's cool you were all born on such interesting times of year. I think it carries astrological significance. Very high energy days.

Personally, I'm snowed in today! WE just had a huge blizzard and there are a couple feet of snow keepin me in!

I am just happy that all of these revelations can come about in the WSM community as well. They are indeed spreading all across the world, and I agree with what you all said.

Whether or not the suffering we've endured was 'necessary' or not, i think is still arguable, however, surely it got us to where we are. But we are in need of a LOT of release to let go all our addictions, and you already listed them quite well.

I"ve got a related (hopefully) question.. how can we use this new power of WSM to make the world a better place for women?

Having been involved in lots of guy-dominated fields and activities, I still feel some unjustice and imbalance. I suppose we are now just becoming aware of where we CAN go, not where we are yet. And we are all going to have to work hard to get there.

Peace to all, thanks for your comments.